Was Melchisedec the Pre-incarnate Christ?

Dondi · 10-24-2006, 02:19 PM

"And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all." - Genesis 14:18-20

"For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually." - Hebrews 7:1-3

"For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec), By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament." - Hebrews 7:14-22

One of the most unusual events in the life of Abram (Abraham) was this meeting with this King of Salem (Jerusalem) after Abram battlled several surrounding kings in a successful effort to bring back the kidnapped Lot back. What is interesting is that there is no mention of the King of Salem at the beginning of the chapter, so what dealing does Melchisedec have with Abram anyway?

But I want to examine what this Melchisedec has in relation to Jesus Christ, who is "a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek" (Psalm 110:4), according to the writer of Hebrews. Is Melchisedec an example of a pre-incarnate Christ?

wil · 10-24-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Is Melchisedec an example of a pre-incarnate Christ?

Can you explain what you mean by a pre-incarnate Christ? The King of Peace as the story goes was real, without beginning and without end...and predated the Prince of Peace. But I'm not sure I understand completely the question.

Dondi · 10-24-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Can you explain what you mean by a pre-incarnate Christ? The King of Peace as the story goes was real, without beginning and without end...and predated the Prince of Peace. But I'm not sure I understand completely the question.

Sure.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made....
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..." - John 1:1-3,14

"Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." - Colossians 1:13-17

From these verses we learn that Jesus Christ has been since the beginning and that He created all things.

There are several places in the OT that suggest that Christ possibly made appearances before He came to earth in the form of a Babe in the NT, born of Mary.

For example, in Daniel 3, when Nebuchadnezzar tossed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego into the fiery furnace (seven time hotter than normal), he exclaimed, "Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." (Daniel 3:25)

In Joshua 5:13-15, as the Israelites were preparing to conquer Jerico, he encounters a stranger with a sword in His hand. When Joshua inquires if this stanger is for Israel or against them, the stranger says, "Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come." Now this could be just an angel, but Joshua falls down to worship and is not rebuked (as John is by an angel in Revelation). and notice what this stranger says, "Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy.", which is very remincent of what God in burning bush told Moses back in Exodus 3:5.

There are more examples, but I think you get the idea. I'm merely contending that Melchisedec might be another one of these encounters with Christ before the manger.

wil · 10-24-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

I'm merely contending that Melchisedec might be another one of these encounters with Christ before the manger.

There are a number of people I know that believe/think this. To me it falls under one of the many things I could accept, and understand, but can't state as fact one way or the other.

Does G-d making an appearance in human form on earth prior to Jesus birth affect Christian thought negatively or positively? Once, twice, twenty, twenty billion times?

To me, no, but I'm very interested in others thoughts.

BlaznFattyz · 10-24-2006, 05:19 PM

i think he was a priest that came into being for a specific reason, that is to show that a new order of priest would be coming that would be superior to the levites. at the same time, because melchizedek had no geneaology traced to levi which by tradition makes one defiled and not suitable as a priest; however, melchizedek was a priest nonetheless appointed not by law but probably by god, and abraham certainly recognized his superiority. so melchiziedek takes abrahams tithe in accordance to the law, but christ would come later to fulfill the law and bring an even greater grace. christ later comes in with a geneaology from david and the tribe of judah and not levi, as well as the holy spirit overshadowing mary. here christs geneaology is known, unlike melchizedek, but is merely like melchizedek in the fact that they were not from levi but appointed higher than levi.

so it is my understanding that melchizidek's purpose was to setup that which would come and be greater than him, and that is christ. it also paralleled with moses who was a type of saviour and prophet for freeing his people from pharoah and giving the law to the jews, but christ would come later and be an even greater saviour over all mankind and free all people from sin and death and actually fulfill the law and not just of prophet of truth, but truth itself.

Dor · 10-24-2006, 07:21 PM

wil · 10-24-2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

.... melchizedek had no geneaology traced to levi which by tradition makes one defiled and not suitable as a priest...christ later comes in with a geneaology from david and the tribe of judah and not levi,

can you expound on that, the Tribe of Levi deifiled and wasn't Joseph who wasn't the father in David's lineage, can we trace Mary to David as well?

BlaznFattyz · 10-24-2006, 10:11 PM

if one could not trace the geneaology to the tribe of levi, then one could not be a high priest by the law and was considered unsuitable. so we see melchizedek not coming from the tribe of levi, nor was jesus who was of the tribe of judah and who came in the order of melchizedek (a high priest appointed by god yet not being a levite).

wil · 10-24-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

if one could not trace the geneaology to the tribe of levi, then one could not be a high priest by the law and was considered unsuitable. so we see melchizedek not coming from the tribe of levi, nor was jesus who was of the tribe of judah and who came in the order of melchizedek (a high priest appointed by god yet not being a levite).

I get that, what I was wondering about was the defiling of the tribe of Levi and them not being suitable priests...and the geneology of Mary...as Jesus is not kin to Joseph who was descended from David. Sorry I wasn't clear.

BlaznFattyz · 10-24-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

I get that, what I was wondering about was the defiling of the tribe of Levi and them not being suitable priests...and the geneology of Mary...as Jesus is not kin to Joseph who was descended from David. Sorry I wasn't clear.

no, not the defiling of the tribe of levi, but rather priests being regarded as unsuitable and defiled because they were not from the tribe of levi. the tribe of levi was it, but melchizedek was the shift from that. im not sure on the last part... perhaps mary was also part of the line of david somehow.. im not to sure if the bible is really clear on that, other than just saying it is what it is.

Dor · 10-24-2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

I get that, what I was wondering about was the defiling of the tribe of Levi and them not being suitable priests...and the geneology of Mary...as Jesus is not kin to Joseph who was descended from David. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Check out geneology in Luke.

aburaees · 10-24-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

melchizedek had no geneaology traced to levi which by tradition makes one defiled and not suitable as a priest

Levites didn't exist during the time of Melchizedek, neither did the law, I think the link between Jesus and Melchizedek is less to do with lineage and more to do with their dual-function as Priest AND King.

BlaznFattyz · 10-24-2006, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aburaees

Levites didn't exist during the time of Melchizedek, neither did the law, I think the link between Jesus and Melchizedek is less to do with lineage and more to do with their dual-function as Priest AND King.

the lineage is very important in hindsight and in gods plan and ways, and the dual function you mentioned is equally as important.

juantoo3 · 10-24-2006, 11:37 PM

Kindest Regards, all!

Here's a couple of older threads on other boards that might be of interest. I took the liberty of bumping them out of the vault to be easier to find:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...w-ye-1226.html

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...html#post77063

wil · 10-24-2006, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Is Melchisedec an example of a pre-incarnate Christ?

Ok so we cleared up the contention that it had anything to do with the lineage of Levi or David, back to our original programming and Dondi's original question.