Waterboarding

[Pathless]

This is weighing heavy on my mind today. Earlier, I was driving, listening to a radio show called Law and Disorder which today featured an interview with one Al McCoy, who wrote a book entitled: A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation, from the Cold War to the War on Terror. In the interview, he repeatedly explained that what has been labeled 'waterboarding' over the past several years (a practice used by the CIA and others in interrogating suspected 'terrorists,' and a practice defended glibly by Dick Cheney) is possibly the most brutal form of torture known. It took me a while to find a parallel on the internet to what he said in the interview (although you can listen to the whole program here, if you want), but I finally found a snippet that describes the experience of waterboarding, from someone who has experienced it first hand:

http://counteractnow.blogspot.com/20...rboarding.html

Originally Posted by Scylla

It took me ten minutes to recover my senses once I tried this. I was shuddering in a corner, convinced I narrowly escaped killing myself.

Here's what happened:

The water fills the hole in the saran wrap so that there is either water or vacuum in your mouth. The water pours into your sinuses and throat. You struggle to expel water periodically by building enough pressure in your lungs. With the saran wrap though each time I expelled water, I was able to draw in less air. Finally the lungs can no longer expel water and you begin to draw it up into your respiratory tract.

It seems that there is a point that is hardwired in us. When we draw water into our respiratory tract to this point we are no longer in control. All hell breaks loose. Instinct tells us we are dying.

I have never been more panicked in my whole life. Once your lungs are empty and collapsed and they start to draw fluid it is simply all over. You know you are dead and it's too late. Involuntary and total panic.

There is absolutely nothing you can do about it. It would be like telling you not to blink while I stuck a hot needle in your eye.

At the time my lungs emptied and I began to draw water, I would have sold my children to escape. There was no choice, or chance, and willpower was not involved.

I never felt anything like it, and this was self-inflicted with a watering can, where I was in total control and never in any danger.

And I understood.

Waterboarding gets you to the point where you draw water up your respiratory tract triggering the drowning reflex. Once that happens, it's all over. No question.

Some may go easy without a rag, some may need a rag, some may need saran wrap.

Once you are there it's all over.

I didn't allow anybody else to try it on me. Inconceivable. I know I only got the barest taste of what it's about since I was in control, and not restrained and controlling the flow of water.

But there's no chance. No chance at all.

So, is it torture?

I'll put it this way. If I had the choice of being waterboarded by a third party or having my fingers smashed one at a time by a sledgehammer, I'd take the fingers, no question.

It's horrible, terrible, inhuman torture. I can hardly imagine worse. I'd prefer permanent damage and disability to experiencing it again. I'd give up anything, say anything, do anything.

The Spanish Inquisition knew this. It was one of their favorite methods.

It's torture. No question. Terrible terrible torture. To experience it and understand it and then do it to another human being is to leave the realm of sanity and humanity forever. No question in my mind.

In the interview, Al McCoy emphasized the primal, hard-wired reaction that every human being has to this simulated drowning. He said, "You know you are dying. You are dead. You panic, you experience your death," or words to that effect. And then he explained that waterboarding is used in interrogations sometimes not just once, twice, or three times, but eight or more times!

This is insane. That our government is doing this to people is sick.

[Paladin]

Oh and let's not forget the CIA funded experiments on shock treatment and drug coctails to regress people to an infantile state in an attempt to create their own Tabula rasa. Recipents would often break bones in their arms legs wrists and shatter teeth when subjected to high voltages. In some cases nearly 8 times the amount needed to do the job. And if that wasn't working they would try sensory deprivation for up to a month or more to slowly drive you into madness.

[seattlegal]

How anyone can say that waterboarding is not torture is beyond me.

Any information that is obtained through it would be suspect, and would not be admissible in court. (It would seem that waterboarding is a handy tool for bypassing the judical branch, especially when waterboarding is deemed to be "an approved interrogation technique" by the PTB.) Sick.

[Francis king]

everybody go surfin', surfin' USA...

[Paladin]

And it looks like the Military aren't the only ones who like torture. Did you know what you are supporting by having a coke?
Killer Coke

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Paladin

And it looks like the Military aren't the only ones who like torture. Did you know what you are supporting by having a coke?
Killer Coke

Wow... It will take me a while to check out all the stuff on that site. Thanks for posting. Glad I don't drink soft drinks much, and I'll be extra vigilant about what I'm drinking when I do after seeing this:

Originally Posted by Javier Correa

Coca-Cola bottlers “contracted with or otherwise directed paramilitary security forces that utilize extreme violence and murdered, tortured, unlawfully detained or otherwise silenced trade union leaders,” the lawsuit states. It also notes that Colombian troops connected with the paramilitaries have trained at the U.S. Army’s School of the Americas (SOA) at Fort Benning, Ga., where trainees were encouraged to torture and murder those who do “union organizing and recruiting;” pass out “propaganda in favor of workers;” and “sympathize with demonstrators or strikes.” This was made public when the Pentagon was forced to reveal the contents of training manuals used at the school. (For more information, see SOA Watch, the website of SOA Watch.) The year that the lawsuit was filed, The Coca-Cola Co. made $4 billion in profits and paid its CEO, Douglas Daft, more than $105 million. Coca-Cola continues to rake in billions each year, yet the frightening conditions at the Coke plants remain unchanged. Labor unions and human rights advocates in the United States can stop these atrocities at Coca-Cola’s bottling plants.

Please read the enclosed exposés. The Campaign to Stop Killer Coke will move the fight to the doorsteps and into the boardrooms of Coca-Cola and its key financial ally, SunTrust Banks. As long as SunTrust, “the bank of Killer Coke,” maintains its intimate ties to Coke through board interlocks, large stock holdings and credit relationships, SunTrust, along with Coca-Cola, will be a principal target of this campaign. We ask you to take part in this most important struggle. Any contribution you can make to the campaign will serve as a critical building block and act of solidarity to help end one of the ugliest chapters in labor history. Please make a financial contribution, participate in protest activities and mail in the coupon below. By working together, we can protect our sisters and brothers and restrain corporations like SunTrust and Coke that behave so immorally and irresponsibly. Any support you give will be greatly appreciated and acknowledged.

I used to have an account with SunTrust after they bought out a smaller bank that I was putting my money into. Glad that account is closed now.

[Paladin]

Ladies and Gentlemen, the President of the United States:
Comcast.net News - Bush to Veto Bill Banning Waterboarding

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Ladies and Gentlemen, the President of the United States:
Comcast.net News - Bush to Veto Bill Banning Waterboarding

[Pathless]

Jackass. Here he is, folks, vetoing away:




Congress had best override this punk-ass gesture.



318 days left. Three hundred and eighteen!!! Good Gawd, y'all, let's impeach this criminal.

[Pathless]

Post Removed... nevermind.

[Tao_Equus]

Dont hold back buddy... let rip at that sick mutha

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Post Removed... nevermind.

Don't be shy, P-nut.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Congress had best override this punk-ass gesture.

Here are the voting records for bill: find your legislators who didn't support this bill and give them hell! Tell them to override a veto!

House voting record for HR 2082:

GovTrack: H.R. 2082: Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 (Vote On Passage)

Senate voting record for HR 2082

U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

{Please notice that members such as Dennis Kucinich and Jim McDermott voted against this bill...Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama did not vote....}

[Paladin]

Okay, the emails have been sent out, and it is only by a thin thread I was able to be the least bit respectful. Colorado has Lamborn and Allard, both Republican fascists.
At least Ken Salazar voted for it.

[Muslimwoman]

Okay let's be fair. We can all see the vidoe's of body parts after a terrorist attack and of media reporters and aid workers having their heads severed off with a 9" hunting knife. I certainly want to be protected from these people and wish the same for my fellow humans.

What I do not want is to BECOME ONE OF THEM!!! Mr Bush you are a mentally retarded, war mongering MORON and you bring shame on your country!!! You also endanger the lives of your citizens you pretend to care about by feeding these people with more reasons, in their opinion, to commit these attrocities.