Wedding at Canna, Jesus' first miracle...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by tommy

Thanks for the kind words. I'm getting to like you more and more everyday, quahom1...

Don't like me too much. I'm one of the town Constables.

[tommy]

Don't worry about that too muchThen try this since as there was no was no response when you lifted the Revelation post last. Put up one from you as the author on who Michael the Archangel is and see what happens (under Revelations are you ready)...go for it...

[Quahom1]

Only go for sure bets...and you're are barking up the wrong tree.


v/r

Q

[mynameisstephen]

Now most people have a problem with this miracle. Here is what they say, "Oh Jesus turned water into wine. I can have a little snort once in a while." That is all they see in this miracle. First of all, the Greek word translated "wine" can refer to the juice that is immediately squeezed out of a grape when the grapes are dropped in the wine vat. It can refer to a week's grape juice, in which foam that does appear on the grapes that are fermenting naturally. It can appear at 30 days. It can be used of that which is 3 months or less. It can refer to the wine of Passover which is mixed with three parts water so it is completely diluted from its alcoholism. It can refer to 6 months. It can refer to 3 years which you always throw out. In other words, the Greek word gives you no help as to whether it is connected with current alcoholic processing.

The second thing that is interesting here is that the ruler of the feast identified the kind of wine that it was. He said it is "best" or "good wine." Now at a marriage supper or any feast or occasion, what you serve first is pure grape juice. It is called best wine. To be literal, when the workers bring in the grapes from the fields and drop them on an ancient winepress, the shear pressure of those stacks of grapes causes some of them to break open and the juice drains into a pan that is under that grate. What you will still see today as you did 2000 years ago, the workers will rush in and fight over that pan. They will pull it out and they will literally drink it right on the spot—right out of that pan. That is what is known as "best wine."

Do you understand why this is a miracle? There was no way you could have gotten enough grapes to drop on a winepress to get that much wine (grape juice) into six waterpots of twenty gallons capacity each. There is no way that they would have time to do it. There is no way that they would have had the amount of grapes to do it. It was an absolute astounding miracle of His power over all creation. The best wine, pure unadulterated and unfermented grape juice, is what He changed this into.

[mee]

Notice that it was said the fine wine was drank first ,and then when they were intoxicated the other wine was given out ,so the fine wine was proper wine able to get people drunk ,i would imagine that once people were a little bit tipsy they would not notice if the wine was rubbish stuff, but jesus only made the wine into the good stuff not the rubbish stuff so i would think it was definitly wine that was intoxicatingfrom Jesus only the best from jesus

[Quahom1]

Then the Bible is mis-translated. Because the very term "wine" originally meant an alcoholic beverage made from fermented juice.

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Then the Bible is mis-translated. Because the very term "wine" originally meant an alcoholic beverage made from fermented juice.

v/r

Q

i agree ,wine mentioned in the bible is alcoholic, we all know that there is expensive wine and cheap wines , cant have the guests saying the host is a cheap skate can we

[mynameisstephen]

Originally Posted by mee

Notice that it was said the fine wine was drank first ,and then when they were intoxicated the other wine was given out ,so the fine wine was proper wine able to get people drunk ,i would imagine that once people were a little bit tipsy they would not notice if the wine was rubbish stuff, but jesus only made the wine into the good stuff not the rubbish stuff so i would think it was definitly wine that was intoxicatingfrom Jesus only the best from jesus

mee I am not sure what Bible version you are reading from but I have searched as many as possible and not one said anything about the guests bieng intoxicated - could you confirm what version you are reading from please

Stephen

[mee]

Originally Posted by mynameisstephen

mee I am not sure what Bible version you are reading from but I have searched as many as possible and not one said anything about the guests bieng intoxicated - could you confirm what version you are reading from please

Stephen

From the Greek methusko, meaning "get drunk, become intoxicated." Some commentators argue that the word implies drinking just enough to dull the taste or to produce hilarity. Other texts do not support this view.—Matthew 24:49; Luke 12:45; Acts 2:15; Ephesians 5:18; 1 Thessalonians 5:7......so the translation i am using is consistent with the word methusko ,that word is used also in these scriptures i have quoted . i find the NWT to be the best for accurate meaning

The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures is published by Jehovah’s Witnesses to help lovers of God’s Word get acquainted with the original Greek text of the Bible. It contains The New Testament in the Original Greek on the left-hand side of the page (compiled by B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort). A literal word-for-word English translation is found under the lines of Greek text. In the narrow right-hand column is the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, which allows you to compare the interlinear translation with a modern English translation of the Bible

[mynameisstephen]

it doesnt mean to get Drunk, rather wine to be drunk



Drunk, (-en, be), Drunkard, Drunkenness [Verb]

methuo signifies "to be drunk with wine" (from methu, "mulled wine;" hence Eng., "mead, honey-wine"); originally it denoted simply "a pleasant drink." For John_2:10 see under DRINK. The verb is used of "being intoxicated" in Matt_24:49; Acts_2:15; 1_Cor_11:21; 1_Thess_5:7b; metaphorically, of the effect upon men of partaking of the abominations of the Babylonish system, Rev_17:2; of being in a state of mental "intoxication," through the shedding of men's blood profusely, Rev_17:6.

See also : methuo in other topics

Drink (-eth, -er, -ing), Drank [Verb]

methuo from methu, "wine, to be drunk," is used in John_2:10 in the Passive Voice, and is translated in the RV, "have drunk freely;" AV, "have well drunk." See DRUNK.

See also : methuo in other topics

[Bandit]

i have to go with stephen on this. there is nothing there about them being intoxicated as if they had already been drinking.Jesus said THEY HAVE NO WINE. so he made wine.

the governers point was, in the beginning of the celebration, they POP open a bottle from the start to celebrate & the ruler tastes it first. then as they get silly & goofy, they put out the cheap stuff becase they wont know the difference. however, they had no wine until Jesus got there.

as we can see they had no wine, period, until Jesus made it & gave it to them which appears to me, to be later in the party. in the start when Jesus got there it says THEY WANTED WINE.

so if they were already drunk, the ruler would not have known the difference.

wether the wine Jesus made was fermented or not is another thing.

i think the whole thing here is that Jesus was going ahead of time, & revealing how we would become drunk on new wine, that is in the gift of the Holy Ghost which is through Jesus & because of his blood shed on Calvary.
on the day of Pentecost the 120 were accused of being drunk, then Peter explains they were not drunk as they supposed but they were drunk on new wine, the Holy Ghost.

IOW, we dont get the good stuff until we meet Jesus.

that is how i see it for now
but you dont have to see it the same way i do.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Bandit

i think the whole thing here is that Jesus was going ahead of time, & revealing how we would become drunk on new wine, that is in the gift of the Holy Ghost which is through Jesus & because of his blood shed on Calvary.
on the day of Pentecost the 120 were accused of being drunk, then Peter explains they were not drunk as they supposed but they were drunk on new wine, the Holy Ghost.

I see it this way too, Bandit.

lunamoth

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I see it this way too, Bandit.

lunamoth

just seems like his mom would have known & said something like, they need more wine, or we are out of wine.
then he goes 'its not my time'

(paraphrasing this)

but the whole thing just never ends...the true vine & we the fruit
the winepress & sickle in revelation. how a man planted a vineyard & rented it.
his body & blood the bread & wine...
the wild sour grapes in Is. are trodden.

then in one place it is like be sober & watch.

it just never ends

[mee]

of course,the director of the feast was not saying that they were intoxicated but it proves that the wine Jesus made was acoholic wine because the word used was the same as the word in other verses where it means intoxicated

Most people know that at the wedding feast in Cana, Jesus turned water into wine. Recall, though, this point: "When, now, the director of the feast tasted the water that had been turned into wine . . . , [he] called the bridegroom and said to him: ‘Every other man puts out the fine wine first, and when people are intoxicated, the inferior.’" (John 2:9, 10) He did not say that at this particular feast the guests got "intoxicated." In fact, it is unthinkable that Jesus would countenance drunkenness and add to it by making more wine. Still, this man knew that overdrinking was common at Jewish wedding feasts.

Matthew 24:49; Luke 12:45; Acts 2:15; Ephesians 5:18; 1 Thessalonians 5:7

From the Greek methusko, meaning "get drunk, become intoxicated.its always best to be consistent with words then the correct meaning can be put in the translation . Jesus did not think it was wrong to drink acoholic wine.i have known some people who try to say that the bible says a christian cannot have alcholic drink, this to me is like adding wrong teaching to the word of God .of course, if a person prefers not to have a drink that is up to them , but to imply that the bible teaches this would be wrong.

Jesus drank wine with his meals when it was available.—Matt. 11:19; Luke 7:34.

Go, eat your food with rejoicing and drink your wine with a good heart, because already the [true] God has found pleasure in your works(eccles 9;7)

(Psalm 104:15) And wine that makes the heart of mortal man rejoice, To make the face shine with oil, And bread that sustains the very heart of mortal man.

Moderation in all things is a Bible principle

Wine and its proper use are not censured, but drunkenness and lack of self-control

Woe to those who are getting up early in the morning that they may seek just intoxicating liquor, who are lingering till late in the evening darkness so that wine itself inflames them(Isaiah5;11)