What do you believe about End Times?

[path_of_one]

I'm with Luna (big surprise). I primarily see it as a symbolic text on the destruction of corruption and remaking of the world. I don't think prophecy is foretelling the future. I also think it was one of many revelations at the time (we've found other revelations texts by other writers) and why this particular one was chosen is a big question mark for me.

I do agree with Wil in that I think the way Revelations is used in the US churches is often driving poor, short-term decision-making and aiding in the control of folks. But it's with their consent, so what are you going to do?

[mee]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

What do I believe? They're rough, aren't they!

the outcome is real smooth, and the understanding of the symbolism aids to our understanding and it gives us hope .





And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.

2 I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: "Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.
4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away." revelation 21;1-4

[mee]

[quote=Faithfulservant;162182].


this is the next event on the time clock when the time of the Gentiles comes in...

Zech 14:12 This is the plague with which the LORD will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.

quote]
The end of the Gentile times was 1914 when Jesus recieved his kingship in the heavenly kingdom goverment, daniel 7;13-14 and when the heavenly kingdom goverment was born and established Daniel 2;44

and now we are well along into the time of the end.

and there is much opposition to that kingdom and the reigning king ,and to those who uphold it .

but as the verse you quoted informs us ,the visions and schemes that those in opposition plan and think about will be stopped.

it will just be as if their tounges had rotted in their mouths

[mee]

Originally Posted by quakeyjase

Tell me about your apocalyptic beliefs.

Armageddon a Happy Beginning

THE word "Armageddon" has its origin in the Hebrew expression "Har–Magedon," or "Mountain of Megiddo."

It is found at Revelation 16:16, which states: "They gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Magedon."

Who are assembled to Armageddon, and why?

Just two verses earlier, at Revelation 16:14, we read: "The kings of the entire inhabited earth" are gathered together "to the war of the great day of God the Almighty."

Naturally, those statements raise additional intriguing questions.

Where do these "kings" fight? Over what issue do they battle, and with whom?

Will they, as many believe, use weapons of mass destruction? Will there be survivors of Armageddon? Let the Bible provide the answers.

Does the reference to the "Mountain of Megiddo" mean that Armageddon will be fought at a certain mountain in the Middle East?

No. For one thing, no such mountain really exists—at the site of ancient Megiddo, there is only a mound rising about 70 feet [20 m] above the adjacent valley plain.

In addition, the area around Megiddo could not begin to hold all "the kings of the earth and their armies." (Revelation 19:19)

However, Megiddo was the site of some of the fiercest and most decisive battles in Middle Eastern history. Thus, the name Armageddon stands as a symbol of a decisive conflict, with only one clear victor.

Armageddon cannot be just a conflict among earthly nations, since Revelation 16:14 states that "the kings of the entire inhabited earth" form a united front at "the war of the great day of God the Almighty."

In his inspired prophecy, Jeremiah stated that "those slain by Jehovah" will be scattered "from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth." (Jeremiah 25:33)

Thus, Armageddon is not a human war confined to a particular location in the Middle East. It is Jehovah’s war, and it is global.

Note, however, that at Revelation 16:16, Armageddon is called a "place."

In the Bible, "place" may signify a condition or a situation—in this case, that the entire world will be united in its opposition to Jehovah. (Revelation 12:6, 14)

At Armageddon all earthly nations ally themselves against "the armies that were in heaven" under the military command of the "King of kings and Lord of lords," Jesus Christ.—Revelation 19:14, 16.

What about the claim that Armageddon will be a holocaust involving weapons of mass destruction or a collision with a celestial body?

Would a loving God allow such a horrific end to humankind and their home, the earth?

No. He expressly states that he did not create the earth "simply for nothing" but "formed it even to be inhabited." (Isaiah 45:18; Psalm 96:10)

At Armageddon, Jehovah will not ruin our globe in a cataclysmic conflagration. Rather, he will "bring to ruin those ruining the earth."—Revelation 11:18.

[Dream]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Put yourself in John's shoes, his life, his knowledge, daily living, etc...

Now, how would you describe a "tank", a "helicopter", a "jet", a "fighter pilot", incendiary bombs, missles, talking through the air for miles away, rocket boosters with four directional thrusters underneath...?

I don't know.

The seven letters are the first thing in the book of Revelation, and they are what it is about. Our dispute about Revelation started because some of us were power hungry. Martin Luthor and Calvin used a 'Continuous Historic' interpretation of Revelation to accuse the RC of being the 'Great Harlot', and someone since that time has devised the Futurist and Preterit points of view to take some of the heat off the RC. They are equally worthless, and have accomplished nothing for Christians except to distract us from the text. It says "Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book." It does not say "Blessed is he who interprets this book." Keeping the words is about taking them personally and doing them.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Dream

It says "Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book." It does not say "Blessed is he who interprets this book." Keeping the words is about taking them personally and doing them.

A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John, 2 who bore witness to the word God gave and to the witness Jesus Christ gave, even to all the things he saw. 3 Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it; for the appointed time is near.
revelation 1;1-3


something that stands out to me ,is that it says ......A revelation by Jesus christ, which God GAVE HIM .


that must mean that Jesus isnt God as some say he is.


Also it says that it is for his SLAVES to see the things that will shortly take place.


so it seems that it will be revealed to Jesus slaves .


and Jesus is feeding his faithful slaves as we can see in matthew 24;45-47

And after being fed they then go on to share that good spiritual food with others ,


so the word revelation means UNCOVERING OR REVEALING


And i believe as one of JEHOVAHS WITNESSES that the book of revelation is most certainly being revealed especially in these the LAST DAYS .

And the understanding is also very abundant especially in the time of the end DANIEL 12;4
And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant."


Prophecies in the book of Daniel and revelation are very closely linked and the understanding is now abundant.


and yes it has been revealed to Jesus slaves .


and mee is willing to be fed by those slaves ,and it is VERY GOOD

[Dream]

Originally Posted by Mee

and Jesus is feeding his faithful slaves as we can see in matthew 24;45-47

Matthew chapter 24 also says: "But if that wicked servant says to himself, `My master is delayed,' and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites; there men will weep and gnash their teeth." (48-51)

That is why Wil and I and everyone are sometimes angry, because we have been beaten by fellow servants who've said to themselves 'My master is delayed'. They preached (and still preach) to everyone 'He's in the inner rooms!', or 'He's in the wilderness!'. They tell us 'Lo, here is the Christ!' or 'Lo, there he is!' But we were warned long ago, "as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man." Haven't you yourself been told repeatedly that Jesus is now in his kingdom, only just out of our reach? For some reason in 1914, he supposedly established a kingdom but people just don't realize it? Mee, you have not accepted the fact that when servants say to themselves 'My master has been delayed' that they start getting abusive and beating instead of feeding the sheep. Its a hard thing, but it is a fact. Or is it you that have you said to yourself 'My master has been delayed'?

[sonoman]

I do wish Christians would not look at Revelation as a Christian document because it isn't. The author's theology is very much counter to Jesus' which if you read John you will know Jesus told us God did not send the Son to condemn the world but to save it. Jesus teaches Christians who follow Him to forgive sinners and yet in Revelation God and Jesus are both unforgiving. If God cannot forgive why should Jesus, why should we? Revelation continues the eye for an eye spiritual error.

[Faithfulservant]

its a good thing you arent an authority on the matter... Someone might actually believe you!

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by somoman

I do wish Christians would not look at Revelation as a Christian document because it isn't. The author's theology is very much counter to Jesus' which if you read John you will know Jesus told us God did not send the Son to condemn the world but to save it. Jesus teaches Christians who follow Him to forgive sinners and yet in Revelation God and Jesus are both unforgiving. If God cannot forgive why should Jesus, why should we? Revelation continues the eye for an eye spiritual error.

Ironically, the events in Revelation seem to center on Israel as a nation. In fact, the 144,000 witnesses are of a supposed Jewish descent. What they will be witnessing about ought to be of interest to any serious scholar of apocalypical literature.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

I'm with Luna (big surprise). I primarily see it as a symbolic text on the destruction of corruption and remaking of the world. I don't think prophecy is foretelling the future. I also think it was one of many revelations at the time (we've found other revelations texts by other writers) and why this particular one was chosen is a big question mark for me.

I do agree with Wil in that I think the way Revelations is used in the US churches is often driving poor, short-term decision-making and aiding in the control of folks. But it's with their consent, so what are you going to do?

I agree that there is a lot of symbolism and imagery in the book of Revelation, but whenever anyone says that the book is symbolic, I have to ask what do you mean by that? How we to take the symbols metaphorically? What application does it have in our own lives? What is God telling us exactly?

I admit that there have been endless scores of books that have attempted to decipher a literal interpretation of end-time events, some making sense, others so off that it borders on ridiculous. We certainly need to be discerning. But if there is a message there from God, regardless of the difficulty of extracting it, we ought to give it a college try. Then there the promise of blessing for anyone who reads Revelation, confusion or not.

Is it not possible that the symbology is placed there to afford some protection on the mysteries of God until such a time as they will be revealed according to God's purpose and timing? We may all be wrong, until before we know it, it happens before our eyes.

I'm going to post later my take. But one thing that I believe important is that any interpretation of Revelation must be studied in light of revelation that has become before and it must be in agreement. There are many parallels and hints that can be gleaned in the Old Testament books such as Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and Jeremiah, as well as the Gospels and the Epistles. I believe that the message is integrated throughout the whole Bible and it would be a worthy venture to attempt to extract what we can with the information we have available.

Having said that, I also agree that there has been abuse and attempts to control certain groups and sects using end-time prophecies. However, Scripture in general has been used that way, yet that ought not to take from away the message nor should we avoid it in light of those abuses.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

I'm with Luna (big surprise). I primarily see it as a symbolic text on the destruction of corruption and remaking of the world. I don't think prophecy is foretelling the future. I also think it was one of many revelations at the time (we've found other revelations texts by other writers) and why this particular one was chosen is a big question mark for me.

I do agree with Wil in that I think the way Revelations is used in the US churches is often driving poor, short-term decision-making and aiding in the control of folks. But it's with their consent, so what are you going to do?

I believe that is a misnomer on Wil's part (or a generalization concerning all Christian churches in the US). The reality is the majority of churches in the US do not dwell incescently on the book of Revelation or the end times, but rather focus on the here and now, and how to live a Christ like life, "daily".

One of the key reasons is because Christ himself said "not to dwell" on the end times, but focus on the here and now, because the kingdom is now and is within. In short, act like we own it because, we already do...

If that is the case, then the only ones who'd have to concern themselves with the end times, are those who aren't accepting of what Christ offers.

If the world is fast becoming a desert, then Christ is telling us to become an oaisis...

[17th Angel]

Act like we own god's kingdom?

[Dor]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

All members are welcome to post their views here, and while no is expecting anyone to agree with a POV, we do expect civility toward each other.

lunamoth

I hope you really believe that after reading this whole thread.
Ask me in a week if anything has changed or if all views are not created equal.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Alex P

Act like we own god's kingdom?

Yeah, we own the right and claim it. That's what Jesus said. See, we belong with God, and have belonged with God from the beginning. We turned away from our inheritance, God didn't turn us away...

Think "prodigal son"...