What does Buddhism say aboot:

[17th Angel]

Substances that can effect the mind?

For example Marjiuana.... This I would see as an ideal "tool" to help in meditation and clearing of the mind... What does buddhism say?

[samabudhi]

If meditation is for clarity, how does marijuana make things any clearer?

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by samabudhi

If meditation is for clarity, how does marijuana make things any clearer?

Because it does.... So Buddhism says no.

I know my answers and my opinions, I am not interested in them... I know hardly anything about Buddhism, so I want to know answers to thoughts from Buddhism not reviewing my own opinions...

[toujour_333]

well, according to the fifth precept, one is to abstain from taking intoxicants, which are the foundations of slothfulness. so, i think that pretty much means most recreational drugs. however, theres not going to be any big hand of god or something that comes down and spanks you because u decided to smoke some pot, but you will have to deal with the reprocussions of the bad karma that you create by doing such things. but thats up to you.

be well in peace

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by toujour_333

well, according to the fifth precept, one is to abstain from taking intoxicants, which are the foundations of slothfulness. so, i think that pretty much means most recreational drugs. however, theres not going to be any big hand of god or something that comes down and spanks you because u decided to smoke some pot, but you will have to deal with the reprocussions of the bad karma that you create by doing such things. but thats up to you.

be well in peace

Very insightful toujour, thanks... So would that also go for alcholic substances as well? Interesting...

My next question is What does Buddhism say about:

Tattoos? Or would that again come down to the Karma balance?

If I am being a pain in the neck and someone can direct me to a link which explains these things that be great.... I have never really looked into eastern religions with great detail... I thought now was the time to do so.

[toujour_333]

no, your not being a pain in the neck. i had the same questions when i was first coming into buddhism. but, yes, it also talks about no alcohol as well, since it also causes slothfulness.

as far as tattoos, i havent heard anything against them, and i hope i dont either. i have 13 tattoos and have had 72 piercings, so if there is something against them, im screwed. lol. but, i guess it would have to be why you got the tattoo and does it help relieve sufferring, or only cause delusion in the mind. thats what i would guess. feel free to PM me if you need more specific questions to your answers. i know that if i cant answer your question, someone on here probably can. there are many insightful people on this forum.

be well in peace

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by toujour_333

no, your not being a pain in the neck. i had the same questions when i was first coming into buddhism. but, yes, it also talks about no alcohol as well, since it also causes slothfulness.

as far as tattoos, i havent heard anything against them, and i hope i dont either. i have 13 tattoos and have had 72 piercings, so if there is something against them, im screwed. lol. but, i guess it would have to be why you got the tattoo and does it help relieve sufferring, or only cause delusion in the mind. thats what i would guess. feel free to PM me if you need more specific questions to your answers. i know that if i cant answer your question, someone on here probably can. there are many insightful people on this forum.

be well in peace

Tourjour... I am three up on you (16 tattoos) You have my thanks for your information and I appreciate the invite to PM you.

[Paladin]

I'm with toujour on the precept and karma aspects of pot and the other issues. I might have very well financed several small south american countries when I was younger, and I only have one tat, the result of mixing boot camp, alchohol and a day off.

I think what we really have to look at here is what your intent is in using drugs, piercing, tats etc. What are you trying to gain by these things, and is it something that you would be gaining through greater effort rather than taking the short cut?
The clarity of thought that seems to come with pot use is short lived actually, and if you live long enough you begin to notice a "glass ceiling" of sorts in your meditations. Almost as if pot takes you into another room well decorated with thangkas, Icons, starlight, and all that, but you begin to notice that your surrounding begin to look plastic, and somewhat two dimensional after all.

Again, I find it helpful to focus on what my intent is in any action I decide upon and ask myself the tough question, "Why am I doing this?"

Peace

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Paladin

I'm with toujour on the precept and karma aspects of pot and the other issues. I might have very well financed several small south american countries when I was younger, and I only have one tat, the result of mixing boot camp, alchohol and a day off.

I think what we really have to look at here is what your intent is in using drugs, piercing, tats etc. What are you trying to gain by these things, and is it something that you would be gaining through greater effort rather than taking the short cut?
The clarity of thought that seems to come with pot use is short lived actually, and if you live long enough you begin to notice a "glass ceiling" of sorts in your meditations. Almost as if pot takes you into another room well decorated with thangkas, Icons, starlight, and all that, but you begin to notice that your surrounding begin to look plastic, and somewhat two dimensional after all.

Again, I find it helpful to focus on what my intent is in any action I decide upon and ask myself the tough question, "Why am I doing this?"

Peace

Thanks very informative and so on... My intent for using weed? One, I like it. Two I am relaxed with it... I am not asking for your approval lol... I am interested in seeing what is approved of in Buddhism. And what isn't approved of... Attempting to 'grasp' the bigger picture of Buddhism I guess.

[Paladin]

My apologies 17th, I didn't mean to give the impression that I was approving or disapproving of your behavior or choices, that is none of my business.
I merely wanted to share my experience to see if it clarified anything for you. If not, forget I said anything

As for the intent, looking deeply into our motivations, and the effects of our choices on our reality, how we affect others and so on, is indeed a Buddhist practice. So I guess there is no direct approval or disapproval for you other than what the precepts say, further, you have the tools to discover answers to your deepest questions that way. After all the Buddha did say never to place someone elses head above your own.

Metta

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I am interested in seeing what is approved of in Buddhism. And what isn't approved of... Attempting to 'grasp' the bigger picture of Buddhism I guess.

Hi 17th,

Well as you may have gathered, there’s no sin/guilt/punishment/hell awaiting, at least in the sense you will be used to. Hell is made by us while we are alive IMO, as per the zen anecdote. I don’t wish to “fob” you off with hyperlinks but if you do want to read more then the Wikipedia site is quite extensive on Buddhism and the Buddhanet site has a “5 minute introduction”:

A Basic Buddhism Guide: 5 Minute Introduction


Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So “approval” and “disapproval” I would say need to be understood in more mature terms than just a “this is evil so you’ll go to hell” kind of way. Buddhism, IMO, is about taking personal responsibility for your mind (and hence actions) on the basis that there are consequences. To say there are consequences is not judgmental, merely a statement of an obvious fact yes? The past cannot be changed, the future is currently a fantasy and it is up to each of us how we behave (specifically towards each other). We can develop ourselves, and only we can do that. The responsibility is ours.

The precepts referred to are commonly 5 in number. You may think they are like the 10 commandments but there is no wagging finger or threat behind them. Look on them as “if I was enlightened how would I be?” The precepts may be phrased as a positive or a negative, so I give you both!:

To develop compassion towards all living creatures (and so not to kill).
To develop generosity (and so not to take that which is not given).
To behave responsibly towards others (and so not to engage in misconduct).
To speak the truth, appropriately and helpfully (and so not to say hurtful words).
To maintain a clear mind (and so not to cloud the mind with intoxicants).

These precepts can be found as part of what is called The Noble Eightfold Path, which as well as being almost the most fundamental part of the dharma (the teachings) also addresses your question I think. The 8 facets of the path are:

Perfect / Ideal / Skilful / “Right”…

…View
An understanding of the fundamental features of the Buddhist view of life and reality is needed for the path to make sense.

…Intention
This is a commitment to engage with the teaching and to live accordingly. The teaching is not simply something to study, it is a practice to be followed in life.

…Speech
Use speech that is truthful, gentle, constructive and purposeful. Communication should be benevolent and pleasant.

…Action
Develop appropriate behaviour: compassionate, generous and honest. To be guided by the precepts.

…Livelihood
If one works it should be in line with the teachings, particularly the precepts. Work should be honest, useful and not lead (directly or indirectly) to harm to others.

…Effort
Strive to refine thoughts and actions. Eliminate harmful thoughts, prevent them from arising in the future, encourage the arising of positive thoughts and the maintenance of them once arisen.

…Mindfulness
Develop clear awareness of the mind to all things around and within you (mental and physical) since they affect both the mind and the body. Show attention to your physical and psychological environment. Being alert, open and in the present moment.

…Concentration
Develop the mind through the practice of meditation.


Hope this is of assistance,

s.

[Francis king]

well, 17th, not all buddhists are so hard line... master Dogen himself said, on the subject of intoxicants- that if one needs wine for the sake of his stomach, then he must take it... I think what he meant is, if u've just come home from work, ur missus has left u, and ur house has burnt down, and ur sick to ur stomach, and drinking some wine might make u feel better, then have a drink, and don't feel too bad about it... if u've had a hard week at work, and u meet up with ur mates and have a few scoops, is there any harm in that..? k, with drugs we have to consider whether by giving our money over to the dealer we are aiding the purchase of weaponry, etc, or enabling bad men to stay in power, but well, if nations will have trade embargos against other nations, then maybe we are doing ppl a favour instead, and the purchase of our substances is enabling some children to be fed, but it's of course, overly simplistic, and will no doubt inspire plenty of ppl to post how wrong I am,

within buddhism intoxicants are generally considered a bad thing because they create an altered state of reality which is contrary to the "seeing things as they are" aspect of buddhism- ur aiming to find this clear mind, unfettered by worry, doubt, illusion, etc, etc, and then u go and dirty it again by getting smashed... seems a bit daft....

the buddha said to Rahula, "before one commits an act, one must ask oneself - does this action harm me, or harm another? and if it harms u or another, u should not do it" ... however, ultimately, the only person responsible for ur happiness is urself... if ur happy, I'm happy...

quite simple, really...

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha

[Snoopy]

Hi Francis,

Not hardline, just that these are the basic teachings. This is the finger that is pointing to the moon. There are of course well documented cases of "gurus" and "zen masters" taking intoxicants and engaging in sexual misconduct. I wasn't trying to say this is how you must behave, simply to answer 17th's question. I shall have no difficulty tonight with my Chilean red wine I imagine

s.

[Francis king]

k, snoopy... I wasn't poking u while u were pointing at the moon...

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Francis king

poking u