What Happened To Boldness? - Page 3

RubySera_Martin · 08-21-2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Ruby,

I'm curious as to how you tune into the Spirit's message exactly. Is it through your conscience? Through reading? Through feelings? Through visions or dreams? Do you hear a still, small voice? I've very interested in any insight you might have.

Dondi

Dondi, I would say all of the above. You might get some insight on this thread in Liberal Christianity: Alternative Christian Awakenings.

lunamoth · 08-21-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustifiedByFaith

Dear All,

Again, this was my initial question.

Question: Do we as Christians speak with boldness and confidence about Jesus and share God's word or are we reserved and more concerned about how people perceive us?

A: Both.

How can it be a good thing that these days people are likely to respond to an act of quiet compassion with "You're a Christian? You sure don't act like one."

JustifiedByFaith · 08-21-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunamoth

A: Both.

How can it be a good thing that these days people are likely to respond to an act of quiet compassion with "You're a Christian? You sure don't act like one."

Dear lunamoth,

I think you made a good point here. It seems that our enemy (Satan) and his foes focus on our "external faults". They tend to put our "actions" on the world spotlight and I agree that overall it doesn't "look" good. Those of us who "walk in the Spirit" must show His presence in us by our words and by our deeds. Thier MUST be unity in word and action to be valid to those outside of His body.

Quahom1 · 08-21-2006, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

I agree somewhat Q. Actions say alot.

There is one problem. I can do all the good I want to do for anyone in the world I can feed them, tend there wounds, build them houses, anything I want but in the end if I haven't shared Jesus and the love God has for us then he still ends up dead.

I would leave that up to Jesus, to determine whether one receives eternal life or not. I one has the light of Christ within them, and another wants what ever that special thing about one has, there will be questions and opportunity to share the Good News of God. What God says is, be ready when the times comes, to bear witness for Him.

You know why evangelists feel frustrated so often? They try too hard and force the issue. They want things to happen on their timeline, instead of on
God's.

It really bothers me when I see people so determined to share about God that they ignore the needs (yes needs), of the audience they are trying to win over, which does the opposite of what the good intentioned wanted. It pushes them away.

You know, Jesus knocks. We use a blasted bull horn and 10 pound Holy Book.

v/r

Q

Faithfulservant · 08-22-2006, 12:51 AM

hi guys.

I would just like to say that I have been bold my whole life in declaring Christ as my Lord.. I walk around asking random people that I meet if they are born again Spirit filled Christians.. if I get looks then I pray that God use me to sow the seeds.. btw I will pray this in the morning.. God however reaps the harvest... if said person declares their faith.. then Amen I found a brother or sister to share testimonies with. I face persecution daily...Christ faced persecution.. Those persecutions are a blessing..

btw i firmly believe that when you are sharing Truth with someone... we as totally corrupted evil and wicked beings cannot comprehend Truth without the Spirit of God. So when sharing Truth with someone.. who is actually sharing it? Our wicked old man self... or the new self that Christ indwells with? Think about it...

InLove · 08-22-2006, 12:57 AM

Hi Faithfulservant. Nice to see you around.

We all have different approaches, but somehow I know that we are all working in the same Spirit.

InPeace,
InLove

Faithfulservant · 08-22-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

It really bothers me when I see people so determined to share about God that they ignore the needs (yes needs), of the audience they are trying to win over, which does the opposite of what the good intentioned wanted. It pushes them away.

Whats amazing is that when they are saved... God will meet all those needs so why not help the people out by delivering the message.

Another thought I had on this subject... how do we know when and how God uses us.. Have you ever had the perfect scripture come to mind at the perfect time...? Do you think thats our perfect memory? I think the credit goes to the Spirit. Same concept goes to sharing the gospel.. are we perhaps allowing the enemy to deceive us by convincing us that we should hold our tongue and try to be sensitive to needs? The enemy trembles at the name of Jesus...and if the seed didnt take hold at the time of sowing.. who's to say it wont take hold a year from now when the ground is more fertile.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

1Co 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Now this is food for thought..

Ezekiel 3:18 When I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.

Ezekiel 3:20 Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you did not give him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand.

ouch twice in one chapter.. we know that this means He is stressing something when he repeats it...

Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand

Ezekiel 33:8 When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you shall surely die!' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.

Again twice in one chapter... and even more so 4 times in one book and a book that is prophetic..

I personally take the bible literally so it might not hold true for all.

Faithfulservant · 08-22-2006, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InLove

Hi Faithfulservant. Nice to see you around.

We all have different approaches, but somehow I know that we are all working in the same Spirit.

InPeace,
InLove

Yes God is good and things would be terribly boring if He made us all the same

Faithfulservant · 08-22-2006, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I seem to recall a passage with Mary Magdalene where Jesus effectively tells Peter to STFU. Or, as in the common translation, "Get behind thee Satan".

The impression given that there's a time and circumstance where talk matters, and other times where the self-belief of the talker is just plain annoying to Jesus.

2c.

Brian were you talking about this?

Matthew 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day. 22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!" 23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."

I was concerned that the scriptures would be taken out of context unintentionally.

jiii · 08-22-2006, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Question: Do we as Christians speak with boldness and confidence about Jesus and share God's word or are we reserved and more concerned about how people perceive us?

Not being a professed Christian, I don't really feel like I have anything too pertinent to add to this discussion as far as my personal sentiment goes. However, I am compelled to contribute an observation.

I don't know exactly what is meant when "boldness" is used here. But, I can say that there is no question in my mind that in America, the average person that I have met which does not claim to be a Christian usually presents one of two somewhat overlapping complaints that they cannot get past:

1) They are taken back by the moral values of Christianity.

2) They are taken back by the zeal of those that have preached to them at some point.

Americans that are looking into religion don't want anything crammed down their throat, and I am only being totally honest when I say that MANY PEOPLE turn away from interest in Christianity because they are inflamed at how readily some Christians feel compelled to tell you...at that, to vehemently insist...that they have the way of God, and that its the only Way. This really makes some people pretty angry. In an America that becomes more and more relativistic, and which is more jaded to religion, every year, this particular trait in some Christians will contribute to losing a lot of followers. It's not that people necessarily reject the Christian doctrine, they are simply made to feel more and more cautious and skeptical in today's world. Someone that bounds into their life proclaiming the glory of God ends up getting filed away in the minds of many along with the guy that shows up on Food Dehydrater infomercials yelling," You have to buy this product! It's the greatest thing ever made! You need to get this, and you need to do it now because time is running out!" Unfortunately, to most Americans, this kind of trumpeting is simply a hoax designed to fool them. In that respect, Christians do need to change with the times, like everyone else. That may mean not being too brazen about religion.

Note, however, that I am not nearly accusing all Christians of these things... just some. What I have to say is based much more on people I've talked to that aren't Christians, or people that come from Christian families yet have grown up to question whether or not they really want to call themselves Christians.

Quahom1 · 08-22-2006, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Whats amazing is that when they are saved... God will meet all those needs so why not help the people out by delivering the message.

Another thought I had on this subject... how do we know when and how God uses us.. Have you ever had the perfect scripture come to mind at the perfect time...? Do you think thats our perfect memory? I think the credit goes to the Spirit. Same concept goes to sharing the gospel.. are we perhaps allowing the enemy to deceive us by convincing us that we should hold our tongue and try to be sensitive to needs? The enemy trembles at the name of Jesus...and if the seed didnt take hold at the time of sowing.. who's to say it wont take hold a year from now when the ground is more fertile.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

1Co 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Now this is food for thought..

Ezekiel 3:18 When I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.

Ezekiel 3:20 Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you did not give him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand.

ouch twice in one chapter.. we know that this means He is stressing something when he repeats it...

Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand

Ezekiel 33:8 When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you shall surely die!' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.

Again twice in one chapter... and even more so 4 times in one book and a book that is prophetic..

I personally take the bible literally so it might not hold true for all.

Good to see you back!

I think we are not quite on the same frequency here, and I'm not quite certain how to explain the two camps of thought, at this moment.

Let's say, one person is a recovering alcoholic, and has been sober for years, and he sees someone else caught up in alcohol and rapdily heading for a very bad fall. One, his heart ( I think) would go out to the troubled individual. Two, I'd think that he would as a decent human being who's been there, point out that he understood because he has been there, and that there is a way out.

There is your planted seed. Now, it is up to the one who is in trouble to decide if he is sick and tired of being sick and tired. A hand is held out to him, but he must take it on his own decision.

What just happened? One identified with another, which establishes a commonality, and tends to cause one's guard to drop a little. There was no perception of judgement, but rather a kindredness. Next, the one points out that there is a way out, which sparks hope in the soul of desperation. Now, the time for patience is at hand. The desperate one may accept the way out, or may turn away from it, or may have to fall a bit more for awhile. None the less, the seed has still been planted.

What didn't happen? There was no "preaching". There was no damnation. There was no judgement on the person as a person.

I believe that we must meet people on an even playing field. We must make certain that we raise the other to our level, as equals and worthy. We must offer some of our self to show that we too have walked (or are still walking) a similar path. All this must take place before we can even begin to present a way out.

Finally, we must be the right person to do the job at hand. That is where we the well intentioned tend to screw things up. We can't always be the one, nor should we think such, that wins a soul.

Bringing people the Good News is like a football game. Everyone on the team is important to that endeavor, that common goal, but not everyone has the same job in the achieving of that goal. Christ is the Coach, and in order for the team to be successful, the individual players must take their instructions and positions proper, as designated by the Coach. The Coach gives the play, and the players must act according to the strategy of the play, or there will be no touchdown, and the opponent team may win.

The reason I bring this up, is because You pointed out something that I'm not designed to do, namely go out arbitrarily to strangers and talk about God. Not everyone is designed to do that. Nor is everyone designed to hold the attention of many at one time, while expressing the Good News. Some of us work best, one on one, or with small groups.

On the otherhand, I have no problems witnessing for God once it comes into the conversation, or once the conversation is primed for bringing God up. And like you pointed out, the timing is God's, and He will let us know the right moment to bring Him into the conversation.

Does that make sense?

v/r

Q

Faithfulservant · 08-22-2006, 03:14 AM

Greetings jiii.

Your observations are welcome and I for one would be pleased to respond from a Christian standpoint.

First off We are ALL sinners.. our good works are as filthy rags. We are only trying to live righteously and morally with the help of the Spirit. We cannot convict anyone of their sins, friend. Only God can do that.. All we can do is ask God to convict us of our own.

I dont know who you mean "Christian" there are many that claim to be Christian but Jesus said the path is narrow and not all who claim to know HIM will He know.

Zeal is a broad term... I believe that Im on "fire" for Christ... that I long to serve Him and serve my fellow brethren and I always pray that unbelievers will learn His truth.. Its not anything I can teach.. only God can convict someone of the truth.. so no Im not going to beat you about the head with my bible... I would tell you straight up that Jesus came to this earth as a man and died for you then resurrected and will return again someday in which all that breathes will bow down before Him and declare Him Lord.

This comment on people leaving churches.. oh yes they are leaving apostate dead or lukewarm churches.. because the Spirit of God is not there. Most are finding churches like mine that are growing in numbers each service.

My observance is that in todays society there are too many ppl that are looking for feel good churches.. or fast food churces... Just read the menu and order the religion just the way you like it. Sorry my church is bible based and on fire or "zealous" for Christ. We take the bible literally because God is not a liar and doesnt patsy around His truth.. He tells it like it is and for the past 6,000 years its held true. Its full of promises that He keeps and I want people to know that the world is not the end all be all of it all. So if I offend people... then ok.. Im sorry but like Jesus said:

(Bits and pieces of Matthew 10:16-42)

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves.

Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

"Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops.

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

"Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law'; and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.' He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.

my 2c

kenod · 08-22-2006, 03:17 AM

For most of us, the ones we will witness to are family, friends, neighbours, and work colleagues. All of these know us pretty well ... so if we talk the talk, we'd better walk the walk.

While it is true that most people in Western countries have heard about Jesus Christ, I find that most do not know that we can have a personal relationship with God that transcends going to church.

My wife was speaking to a member of our family recently who was having great problems. My wife said: "Well, you know what my answer is" (meaning trusting in Jesus Christ). The family member replied: "I've tried going to church".

Dor · 08-22-2006, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenod

My wife was speaking to a member of our family recently who was having great problems. My wife said: "Well, you know what my answer is" (meaning trusting in Jesus Christ). The family member replied: "I've tried going to church".

Oh my, remember how church used to be a job.
So much better when you actually have Christ I actually spend 5 to 6 days a week looking forward to waking up Sunday morning now. Of course having an amazing preacher that teaches the bible helps just slightly too.

kenod · 08-22-2006, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Oh my, remember how church used to be a job.
So much better when you actually have Christ I actually spend 5 to 6 days a week looking forward to waking up Sunday morning now. Of course having an amazing preacher that teaches the bible helps just slightly too.

That's the way we should all feel. I'm certainly not against going to church, but when it is a ritual rather than a personal faith experience, I think it needs to be challenged. Glad to hear you have an anointed preacher.