What if the Man of Sin is Here?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

the nephilin died in the flood ,they were the offspring of the fallen angels.but the fallen angels went back to the heavens. and yes they did go to and fro heaven and earth ,but now since they were cast out of heaven for good they are here all the time, know wonder condtions are bad on the earth they have a great influence. i found this information about this word (preached ) at 1 peter 3;19in the footnote
Or, "heralded." Gr., e·ke´ry·xen; Lat., prae·di·ca´vit. Compare Da 5:29 ftn, "Heralded............

At that time Bel·shaz´zar commanded, and they clothed Daniel with purple, with a necklace of gold about his neck; and they (heralded )concerning him that he was to become the third ruler in the kingdom dan5;29..........so i would think it was a proclamation

Ke·rys´so, in general, means "proclaim" (good or bad news), as distinguished from eu·ag·ge·li´zo·mai, "declare good news." Noah was a preacher (or herald, ke´ryx) to the antediluvian world, warning them. (2Pe 2:5) Christ preached (like a herald) to the spirits in prison, but not the good news.—1Pe 3:18, 19

Easy dude. I think you're on to something...but you sure don't have all the answers. None of the translations have anything to do with the prisoners that Jesus went into hell/Sheol/hades for. Not one explains the fallen ones, or fallen angels, or Nephilim.

Christ went into Sheol/Hades what ever you want to call it, to notify the faithful that He is come!

Those are, the faithful that did not have the grace of Jesus to send them to heaven immediately upon their deaths. God the Father, remember, could not look upon sin. Jesus fixed that.

v/r

Q

[mee]

forgive my ignorance,but where does the bible say that jesus spoke to the faithful or have i missed it yes Jesus went into the grave when he died , but where does it say he spoke to any other dead people .

[Bandit]

i dont know that it says he actually spoke to anyone (but maybe), but his spirit went to the other spirits of the righteous seed to let them know they were free from the curse of death.



the body goes to the grave but the spirit goes to another place. i think some used to believe the spirit actually stayed with the body inside the tomb until Jesus came.

or so that is how i have been seeing it.

[mee]

To establish the identity of the "spirits in prison," we must first consider the setting in which reference is made to them. We read: "Even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. In this state also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed."—1 Pet. 3:18-20.


Since mention is made of Noah’s days, we must examine events of that time for clues as to the identity of the "spirits in prison." With the exception of Noah and his family, the human society was disobedient to God. Could it have been that the resurrected Jesus Christ preached to the spirits of those disobedient people? No. Why not? Because the Bible clearly shows that all conscious existence ends at death. For example, in Ecclesiastes we are told: "The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun."—Eccl. 9:5, 6.

Furthermore, there is no difference between the spirit or life force animating animals and that animating humans. Ecclesiastes 3:19 states: "There is an eventually as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit."

Thus the Holy Scriptures rule out linking the "spirits in prison" with the people who perished during the global deluge. We must, therefore, look outside the human sphere for clues regarding the identity of these imprisoned spirits. The Bible book of Genesis enables us to do that. It tells us about what certain "sons of the true God" or angels did in the days of Noah

Gen. 6:1, 2, 4.

In view of their being in a debased condition on account of their unfaithfulness, these spirit persons would not have had opened up to them an opportunity for repentance through Jesus Christ. He did not die for any disobedient angels but exclusively for mankind. God’s Word says: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all." (1 Tim. 2:5, 6) "He [Jesus Christ] is really not assisting angels at all."—Heb. 2:16.

Since the ransom benefits do not apply to disobedient angels, their situation is like that of spirit-anointed Christians who forsake true worship, becoming apostates. Regarding such individuals, Hebrews 6:4-6 states: "It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance." Surely, then, it would be just as impossible for willfully disobedient angelic sons of God to repent of their rebelliousness.

Accordingly, the resurrected Jesus Christ could only have proclaimed a message of condemnation to the disobedient angels. Shortly before his death on an execution stake, he told his disciples: "When that one [God’s spirit] arrives he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: in the first place, concerning sin, because they are not exercising faith in me; then concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will behold me no longer; then concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged." (John 16:8-11) The ‘ruler of the world’ is also the ruler of the disobedient angels or demons. (Compare Revelation 12:7-9.) Hence, in harmony with the "convincing evidence" of God’s spirit, the resurrected Christ could proclaim a fully justified judgment against the "spirits in prison."

So the combined evidence of the Scriptures makes it plain that the "spirits in prison" are rebellious angels. They are not the spirits of dead humans, for the spirit in man is but an activating life force

[Bandit]

well i guess that is possible too since i dont believe in pergutory.

so it is possible that mans spirit gets zapped out of existance immediately & the good ones go to heaven...but that does not work either because death & hell & the unrighteous are still waiting to be judged at the white throne judgment...which comes after the 2nd coming of Jesus.

so...i gues Jesus set the devil & the bad angels free? instead of the prophets & righteous?

[mee]

Originally Posted by Bandit

well i guess that is possible too since i dont believe in pergutory.

so it is possible that mans spirit gets zapped out of existance immediately & the good ones go to heaven...but that does not work either because death & hell & the unrighteous are still waiting to be judged at the white throne judgment...which comes after the 2nd coming of Jesus.

so...i gues Jesus set the devil & the bad angels free? instead of the prophets & righteous?

well as far as i am concerned the bible does not teach that man posseses an immortal soul .so i think this is were a lot of confusion sets in . the resurection of those in Gods memory will be judged on how they live there lives from their resurrection .not on their past deeds before they died. and i believe that the resurrection will be on the earth , not in heaven.death is a condition and hell is the common grave of mankind, and they will be got rid of in the end.satan and his demons are on death row ,because of their unfaithfulness to the true God .so getting back to the thread about the man of lawlessness ,in away this composite man is also on death row because of its unfaithfulness

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by mee

well as far as i am concerned the bible does not teach that man posseses an immortal soul .so i think this is were a lot of confusion sets in . the resurection of those in Gods memory will be judged on how they live there lives from their resurrection .not on their past deeds before they died. and i believe that the resurrection will be on the earth , not in heaven.death is a condition and hell is the common grave of mankind, and they will be got rid of in the end.satan and his demons are on death row ,because of their unfaithfulness to the true God .so getting back to the thread about the man of lawlessness ,in away this composite man is also on death row because of its unfaithfulness

but how can the soul not be immortal if we are going to live forever on the earth with Jesus?? i dont think the soul is immortal either, not in the sense that it always existed. the only way i see that the soul of man is not immortal (after God makes it) is if God destroys it, the same way with the devil.
you know immortal, everlasting, eternal can also mean from a starting point that moves forward. right?


i know at the end there it says after 1000 years the 'dead' stand before God & are judged.
i think this means the dead (not alive unto/in Christ)

what about this::
rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

it does not say that lies & murder face the second death but rather LIARS & MURDERERS go to the second death.
i think the man of sin/son of perdition also faces the second death right along with false prophet & the devil.. as in POOF be gone all the wicked people & spirits, never to cause any more problems for the good people.

the resurection of those in Gods memory will be judged on how they live there lives from their resurrection

this does not make sense at all to me. do you think only the flesh body gets resurrected?..can you explain please?

[mee]

some people believe that we have a shadowy thing that is inside of us ,and when we die it goes up to heaven ,some thing like a spirit creature .i do not believe the bible teaches this ,i believe the soul is me ,adam became a living soul,he wasnt given one he was one.the life-force is from God .when we die we go to dust the life force goes back to God it is only God that can give us everlasting life .and yes ,you are right those who spoil things on the earthwill get the second death of eternal destructionwhen John 5;28-29 speaks of the resurrection of the rightous and the unrightous, the rightous are resurrected to everlasting life but the unrightous will have the chance to live in line with the new scrolls .if they dont then its off to the second death for them .no hope of a resurrection after that one.yes ,i do believe that God can resurrect us again with a new body ,remember that we are in Gods memory he knows the formation of us, it is no big deal for him to resurrect us with the personality traits and memories of our past life .i also believe that when Jesus was resurrected on the earth God gave him a body and the disciples recognized him because of what he did.i think God will give us a body again

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by mee

some people believe that we have a shadowy thing that is inside of us ,and when we die it goes up to heaven ,some thing like a spirit creature .i do not believe the bible teaches this ,i believe the soul is me ,adam became a living soul,he wasnt given one he was one.the life-force is from God .when we die we go to dust the life force goes back to God it is only God that can give us everlasting life .

ok we agree on the second death part (except i am not sure what you mean by the scrolls & not sure i want to know).

huh. interesting. i have never heard that before in my life, except for atheist & such. (but i know you are not atheist)
i think when God breathed the breath of life man BECAME a living soul. i think that breath or mist is the soul/spirit. i think the bible talks a lot about the soul/spirit of man.

i believe the soul is ME also. i see mind/spirit as the same thing except i believe the soul/spirit has a substance. we just cannot register it in the physical realm. they can register the mind as in thoughts but not the soul as in a substance.
at least i have a shadowy thing inside me, maybe others dont. the sadowy thing moves inside of me, up & down & all around my body & i would like to get out of this body someday. i have heard some say they feel the shadowy thing is only attached to there head in the back of the neck & it never moves.

i am curious, just one more question here Mee. what do you think it was in the bible when it says Jesus gave up the ghost? at calvary. would not that be his soul/spirit that he gave up?
i think what you call life force, from God, i call soul or spirit (shadowy thing) of man, from God.

[Mindonfire]

Originally Posted by Bandit

this is kind of what i have thought too
he must be able to fool everyone & get there vote & all at the right moment.
OTH, how easy it will be for the said believers who are not watching the signs to cast the wrong lot.
In my belief, i see the body of Christ recognizing him & being few in numbers. i think we are in that falling away period.
Most likely all will be here for part of the reign. Before the vile comes out of his mouth & the others realize it, the church will be gone. so i am not worried about it, just watch, be sober & pray.
this is only my belief.

Good day
You are right they are few in number who have recognized him. The church isn't going anywhere for a while. They will be here on earth through it all, if they are not killed first.

[Mindonfire]

Originally Posted by mee

Paul wrote that the lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs. (2 Thessalonians 2:2, 3, 9) Plainly, the pa·rou·si´a, or presence, of the man of lawlessness was not just a momentary arrival; it would extend over time, during which lying signs would be produced.

Consider the verse immediately before that .The lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. Just as the presence of the man of lawlessness ,would be over a period of time, Jesus presence would extend for some time and would climax in the destruction of that lawless son of destruction.—2 Thessalonians 2:8. so dont you think that the pagan beliefs that the clergy have promoted ,have decieved many people ,look at the trinity doctrine , talk about deception.hellfire, talk about deception,need i go on . to believe in the trinity is to deny Jesus because it is false, so that would make anyone who takes on the trinity the antichrist as well. it will be plain to see .

You are correct while the Man of Sin is here on Earth Messias will also be present
You are also correct about the pagan beliefs blinding the people. Their assumptions will not let them see the truth. For example the theory of the rapture, the Man of Sin is coming from the Middle East etc...