What is a soul?

[Pico]

Originally Posted by mee

DO YOU think you have an immortal soul that survives when you die? Most people with any religious background, whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, Shinto, Buddhist or Hindu, share this one basic idea. But why do they believe it? Because they have proof? Or because it has always been taught that way by most religions and by popular hearsay? How, in fact, did the immortal soul idea get into "Christian" teaching?

"Christian theology has become so fused with Greek philosophy that it has reared individuals who are a mixture of nine parts Greek thought to one part Christian thought."


For example, Plato, a Greek philosopher of the fourth century B.C.E., wrote: "The soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!"

What do you think God meant when he said he "Put eternity in the hearts of men?"(Eccl 3:11)

[mee]

Originally Posted by Pico

What do you think God meant when he said he "Put eternity in the hearts of men?"(Eccl 3:11)

Under normal circumstances we want to keep living indefinitely. We want life with no expiration date. There is no indication that animals have such a yearning. They live with no awareness of the future.


humans, unlike animals, are not supposed to die at all— they were created to live forever?


Death was not part of God’s original purpose for mankind. (but we all know what happened dont we?)



(Ecclesiastes 3:11) Everything he has made pretty in its time. Even time indefinite he has put in their heart, that mankind may never find out the work that the [true] God has made from the start to the finish.

[Virtual_Cliff]

Originally Posted by mee

Under normal circumstances we want to keep living indefinitely. We want life with no expiration date. There is no indication that animals have such a yearning. They live with no awareness of the future.

Many animals to appear to know when it is time for them to die, and seem content to take what is coming, unlike most humans.

I have no opinion on the immortality of the soul, but I would mention that Jesus once said that in Heaven there is no male and female but all were like angels; also his is reported to have said on the cross "This day you shall be with me in Paradise" (IIRC).

Jesus doesn't seem to have been clear on the afterlife, other than to warn of dire consequences for the wicked. My reading of Acts is that the early Christians expected Jesus to return within a few weeks, or a few years at most, and were deeply disappointed when they started to die before his return.

Jewish tradition for the most part seems to be that we are mortal, pure and simple.

The Celtic Christians apparently thought of their bodies as living within the soul, rather than the other way round. Soul has been translated as "true self", whatever that is. It could be no more than personality, it could be a thing in itself. In a sense that is irrelevant as long as we have a handle to use to describe a person's essential existence.

Cliff

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by bob x

No. Did you get this lunatic falsehood from some e-mail that Christians circulate among themselves?

Actually no. It was a scientific publication (I'm trying to remember the name). Anyway, they got the idea from the Egyptians who described a feather being used to weigh the soul of the dead.

I'll find it, eventually.

v/r

Q

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

This was a very insightful, and helpful post. Thank you for taking the time, and caring enough to write it out for me. I feel that it comes from your heart, and for that I am appreciative.

I am not troubled usually, as I have come to accept [for the most part] that there is only so much that I can know I am searching, but we can't always hit the mark, can we? That being said, my spirit has found refuge in the Love of God, and my soul is on the journey to that state of contentment.

My biggest problem right now is that I'm not sure what's going to happen on this earth. Will we ever learn to live in peace? That is my want, DB. I want all mankind to live through the Love of God, bound together -united. I find myself wanting, and maybe even seconed guessing my creator. Why? I need to just humble myself, and simply trust that He knows what He's doing.

Anyway, I've rambled enough. It has been a pleasure to feel your heart, DB.

Thank you,

Love

James

Salam brother,
Actually, it has been a big pleasure to me that you felt my heart.Yes, it came from my heart because I exprienced it.They said what comes from heart gets to heart, and what comes from mouth stays at ears.
let me tell you my impression about you brother Gatekeeper.I felt you are a spiritual, loving creature whom people love being with because of your love and care radiation and aura.

I really appreciate you when you said that your biggest problem is that you arent sure what is going to happen in this earth, and that if we will ever live in peace....how a nice person you are? such questions come only from a caring, sympathic person.

yes, Gatekeeper. It would be God's paradise in earth if pepole live in peace through God' love.

will we ever in peace? yes, we can.But, first we should start with ourselves. How? we should educate our souls. God says in the Holy Quran:"But thy Soul, and the proportionand order given to it,8, And its enlightenment as to its wrong and its right,9,Truly he succeeds that purifies it, 10, And he fails that corrupts it!(91:8-10). Ali Yusuf comments on these verses sayintg:" man should know that his success, his prosperity,his salvation,depends on himself,- on his keeping his soul pure as God made it, and his failure and decline, his perdition depends on his soiling his soul by choosing evil"

Yes, brother, we want all human beings to live peacefully with each other...But, everyone has to strive for that...you can show the way to the others, but you cannot force them to take that way. That's why God Himself said to the prophet Muhammed(pbuh), who was so caring about others' happiness and was sad to witness people choosing other way than God's,:" If it had been thy Lord's Will, they would all have believed,-all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind,against their will, to believe1(10:99). people have to strive for their happiness so that they will be rewarded. Ali Ysuf comments on these verses, saying:" if it had been God's Plan or Will not to grant the limited Free-will that He has granted to man,His omnipotence could have made all mankind alike:all would then have Faith, but that Faith would have reflected no merit on them.In the actual world as it is, man has been endowed with various faculties and capacities, so that he should strive and explore, and bring himself into harmony God's Will.Hence Faith becomes moral achievement, and to resist Faith becomes a sin......people should strive spiritually and let God's Plan work as He wills"

yes, brother, we have to strive to live peacefully with each other through God's love....we should strive and do right, and that's why we are created. God said:" He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving,-(67:2"

your want,Gatekeeper, is simple and great....so great...we can live peacefully and through God's love if everyone strives for being with God in all his deeds...Thus, we can live peacefully and lovingly as our purpose is one: God's satisfaction and pleasure.

May God bless you, brother Gatekeeper
your sister DB

[mee]

Soul

Definition: In the Bible, “soul” is translated from the Hebrew ne′phesh and the Greek psy·khe′. Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. To many persons, however, “soul” means the immaterial or spirit part of a human being that survives the death of the physical body. Others understand it to be the principle of life. But these latter views are not Bible teachings.

[mee]

“Soul” and “Spirit”—What Do These Terms Really Mean?

WHEN you hear the terms “soul” and “spirit,” what comes to your mind? Many believe that these words mean something invisible and immortal that exists inside us. They think that at death this invisible part of a human leaves the body and lives on. Since this belief is so widespread, many are surprised to learn that it is not at all what the Bible teaches. What, then, is the soul, and what is the spirit, according to God’s Word?

“SOUL” AS USED IN THE BIBLE

First, consider the soul. You may remember that the Bible was originally written mainly in Hebrew and Greek. When writing about the soul, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ne′phesh or the Greek word psy·khe′. These two words occur well over 800 times in the Scriptures, and the New World Translation consistently renders them “soul.” When you examine the way “soul” or “souls” is used in the Bible, it becomes evident that this word basically refers to (1) people, (2) animals, or (3) the life that a person or an animal enjoys. Let us consider some scriptures that present these three different senses.

People. “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” (1 Peter 3:20) Here the word “souls” clearly stands for people—Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives. Exodus 16:16 mentions instructions given to the Israelites regarding the gathering of manna. They were told: “Pick up some of it . . . according to the number of the souls that each of you has in his tent.” So the amount of manna that was gathered was based upon the number of people in each family. Some other Biblical examples of the application of “soul” or “souls” to a person or to people are found at Genesis 46:18; Joshua 11:11; Acts 27:37; and Romans 13:1.

Animals. In the Bible’s creation account, we read: “God went on to say: ‘Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.’ And God went on to say: ‘Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.’ And it came to be so.” (Genesis 1:20, 24) In this passage, fish, domestic animals, and wild beasts are all referred to by the same word—“souls.” Birds and other animals are called souls at Genesis 9:10; Leviticus 11:46; and Numbers 31:28.

Life as a person. Sometimes the word “soul” means one’s life as a person. Jehovah told Moses: “All the men who were hunting for your soul are dead.” (Exodus 4:19) What were Moses’ enemies hunting for? They were seeking to take Moses’ life. Earlier, while Rachel was giving birth to her son Benjamin, “her soul was going out (because she died).” (Genesis 35:16-19) At that moment, Rachel lost her life. Consider also Jesus’ words: “I am the fine shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep.” (John 10:11) Jesus gave his soul, or life, in behalf of mankind. In these Bible passages, the word “soul” clearly refers to life as a person. You will find more examples of this sense of “soul” at 1 Kings 17:17-23; Matthew 10:39; John 15:13; and Acts 20:10.

A further study of God’s Word will show you that nowhere in the entire Bible are the terms “immortal” or “everlasting” linked with the word “soul.” Instead, the Scriptures state that a soul is mortal, meaning that it dies. (Ezekiel 18:4, 20) Therefore, the Bible calls someone who has died simply a “dead soul.”—Leviticus 21:11.

THE “SPIRIT” IDENTIFIED

Let us now consider the Bible’s use of the term “spirit.” Some people think that “spirit” is just another word for “soul.” However, that is not the case. The Bible makes clear that “spirit” and “soul” refer to two different things. How do they differ?

Bible writers used the Hebrew word ru′ach or the Greek word pneu′ma when writing about the “spirit.” The Scriptures themselves indicate the meaning of those words. For instance, Psalm 104:29 states: “If you [Jehovah] take away their spirit [ru′ach], they expire, and back to their dust they go.” And James 2:26 notes that “the body without spirit [pneu′ma] is dead.” In these verses, then, “spirit” refers to that which gives life to a body. Without spirit, the body is dead. Therefore, in the Bible the word ru′ach is translated not only as “spirit” but also as “force,” or life-force. For example, concerning the Flood in Noah’s day, God said: “I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force [ru′ach] of life is active from under the heavens.” (Genesis 6:17; 7:15, 22) “Spirit” thus refers to an invisible force (the spark of life) that animates all living creatures.

The soul and the spirit are not the same. The body needs the spirit in much the same way as a radio needs electricity—in order to function. To illustrate this further, think of a portable radio. When you put batteries in a portable radio and turn it on, the electricity stored in the batteries brings the radio to life, so to speak. Without batteries, however, the radio is dead. So is another kind of radio when it is unplugged from an electric outlet. Similarly, the spirit is the force that brings our body to life. Also, like electricity, the spirit has no feeling and cannot think. It is an impersonal force. But without that spirit, or life-force, our bodies “expire, and back to their dust they go,” as the psalmist stated.

Speaking about man’s death, Ecclesiastes 12:7 states: “The dust [of his body] returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.” When the spirit, or life-force, leaves the body, the body dies and returns to where it came from—the earth. Comparably, the life-force returns to where it came from—God. (Job 34:14, 15; Psalm 36:9) This does not mean that the life-force actually travels to heaven. Rather, it means that for someone who dies, any hope of future life rests with Jehovah God. His life is in God’s hands, so to speak. Only by God’s power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that a person may live again.

How comforting it is to know that this is exactly what God will do for all of those resting in “the memorial tombs”! (John 5:28, 29) At the time of the resurrection, Jehovah will form a new body for a person sleeping in death and bring it to life by putting spirit, or life-force, in it. What a joyful day that will be!

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

“Soul” and “Spirit”—What Do These Terms Really Mean?

WHEN you hear the terms “soul” and “spirit,” what comes to your mind? Many believe that these words mean something invisible and immortal that exists inside us. They think that at death this invisible part of a human leaves the body and lives on. Since this belief is so widespread, many are surprised to learn that it is not at all what the Bible teaches. What, then, is the soul, and what is the spirit, according to God’s Word?

“SOUL” AS USED IN THE BIBLE

First, consider the soul. You may remember that the Bible was originally written mainly in Hebrew and Greek. When writing about the soul, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ne′phesh or the Greek word psy·khe′. These two words occur well over 800 times in the Scriptures, and the New World Translation consistently renders them “soul.” When you examine the way “soul” or “souls” is used in the Bible, it becomes evident that this word basically refers to (1) people, (2) animals, or (3) the life that a person or an animal enjoys. Let us consider some scriptures that present these three different senses.

People. “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” (1 Peter 3:20) Here the word “souls” clearly stands for people—Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives. Exodus 16:16 mentions instructions given to the Israelites regarding the gathering of manna. They were told: “Pick up some of it . . . according to the number of the souls that each of you has in his tent.” So the amount of manna that was gathered was based upon the number of people in each family. Some other Biblical examples of the application of “soul” or “souls” to a person or to people are found at Genesis 46:18; Joshua 11:11; Acts 27:37; and Romans 13:1.

Animals. In the Bible’s creation account, we read: “God went on to say: ‘Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.’ And God went on to say: ‘Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.’ And it came to be so.” (Genesis 1:20, 24) In this passage, fish, domestic animals, and wild beasts are all referred to by the same word—“souls.” Birds and other animals are called souls at Genesis 9:10; Leviticus 11:46; and Numbers 31:28.

Life as a person. Sometimes the word “soul” means one’s life as a person. Jehovah told Moses: “All the men who were hunting for your soul are dead.” (Exodus 4:19) What were Moses’ enemies hunting for? They were seeking to take Moses’ life. Earlier, while Rachel was giving birth to her son Benjamin, “her soul was going out (because she died).” (Genesis 35:16-19) At that moment, Rachel lost her life. Consider also Jesus’ words: “I am the fine shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep.” (John 10:11) Jesus gave his soul, or life, in behalf of mankind. In these Bible passages, the word “soul” clearly refers to life as a person. You will find more examples of this sense of “soul” at 1 Kings 17:17-23; Matthew 10:39; John 15:13; and Acts 20:10.

A further study of God’s Word will show you that nowhere in the entire Bible are the terms “immortal” or “everlasting” linked with the word “soul.” Instead, the Scriptures state that a soul is mortal, meaning that it dies. (Ezekiel 18:4, 20) Therefore, the Bible calls someone who has died simply a “dead soul.”—Leviticus 21:11.

THE “SPIRIT” IDENTIFIED

Let us now consider the Bible’s use of the term “spirit.” Some people think that “spirit” is just another word for “soul.” However, that is not the case. The Bible makes clear that “spirit” and “soul” refer to two different things. How do they differ?

Bible writers used the Hebrew word ru′ach or the Greek word pneu′ma when writing about the “spirit.” The Scriptures themselves indicate the meaning of those words. For instance, Psalm 104:29 states: “If you [Jehovah] take away their spirit [ru′ach], they expire, and back to their dust they go.” And James 2:26 notes that “the body without spirit [pneu′ma] is dead.” In these verses, then, “spirit” refers to that which gives life to a body. Without spirit, the body is dead. Therefore, in the Bible the word ru′ach is translated not only as “spirit” but also as “force,” or life-force. For example, concerning the Flood in Noah’s day, God said: “I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force [ru′ach] of life is active from under the heavens.” (Genesis 6:17; 7:15, 22) “Spirit” thus refers to an invisible force (the spark of life) that animates all living creatures.

The soul and the spirit are not the same. The body needs the spirit in much the same way as a radio needs electricity—in order to function. To illustrate this further, think of a portable radio. When you put batteries in a portable radio and turn it on, the electricity stored in the batteries brings the radio to life, so to speak. Without batteries, however, the radio is dead. So is another kind of radio when it is unplugged from an electric outlet. Similarly, the spirit is the force that brings our body to life. Also, like electricity, the spirit has no feeling and cannot think. It is an impersonal force. But without that spirit, or life-force, our bodies “expire, and back to their dust they go,” as the psalmist stated.

Speaking about man’s death, Ecclesiastes 12:7 states: “The dust [of his body] returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.” When the spirit, or life-force, leaves the body, the body dies and returns to where it came from—the earth. Comparably, the life-force returns to where it came from—God. (Job 34:14, 15; Psalm 36:9) This does not mean that the life-force actually travels to heaven. Rather, it means that for someone who dies, any hope of future life rests with Jehovah God. His life is in God’s hands, so to speak. Only by God’s power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that a person may live again.

How comforting it is to know that this is exactly what God will do for all of those resting in “the memorial tombs”! (John 5:28, 29) At the time of the resurrection, Jehovah will form a new body for a person sleeping in death and bring it to life by putting spirit, or life-force, in it. What a joyful day that will be!

A body is simply a shell, which houses the Spirit within. However, your definition of "soul" as "life" as opposed to spirit or persona is in conflict with passages you yourself present: "Animals. In the Bible’s creation account, we read: “God went on to say: ‘Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.’ And God went on to say: ‘Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.’ And it came to be so.” (Genesis 1:20, 24) In this passage, fish, domestic animals, and wild beasts are all referred to by the same word—“souls.” Birds and other animals are called souls at Genesis 9:10; Leviticus 11:46; and Numbers 31:28."

By combining the word "living" with the word "soul" suggests the negation of the soul as being life but rather some "thing" that is alive.

Now perhaps, there are three items needed for a physical being to be Godly made, and alive, or animation in a corporial body: Soul, Life-force, and Spirit.

Soul being the "spark" from God, which maintains a charge that can keep the Life-force energized, thus allowing the corporial body to contain the Spirit within this physical world's confines, or boundries.

Through the body's ability to amplify the spark from the Soul into the energy of Life-Force, Life-Force then maintains the health and strength and animation of the body, while containing the Spirit within that animated body.

If a body, loses enough of its internal vital functions, Life-force can not be amplified enough to maintain the animation, health and strength of the body, and the body fails, which causes Life-Force to cease, which causes the Spirit to be released, and the Soul or spark from God, either remains with the body or is also released to return to God.

If the argument is that the Soul is from God, then the Soul is not immortal (though it can remain dormant with the body, like a capaciter with no means to discharge it's stored potential).

The Spirit however, is the essence of the individual that was housed in the body, and essence is energy, hence is not destroyed, only changed. If it goes back to God then the Spirit is contained by God. If however the Spirit does not go back to God it is considered lost, or worse - without containment, it can diffuse into the cosmos, to the point of irretrievability (except by God).

The Bible, want's us to "think" and ponder these wonders, hence not everything is cut and dry, nor does it maintain one level of comprehensibility throughout its pages. Indeed, as the chapters progress, so does the need for man's knowledge to increase, in order to fully understand the completeness and complexity that is the Word of God.

v/r

Q

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Dictionary defines soul as: 1: the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life2 a: the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe.

I was under the impression that a soul is that part of us that makes us aware of life, but I'm not sure now. I suppose it could be the essence of life, but I thought that was Spirit, lol. I'm a little confused about it all, is all....

Can anyone define soul in simple terms, as to make it an easier concept for me to understand?

Also, do you think souls are eternal, and if you do, from where do you get this view?

Much thanks,

James

This is how it was explained to me as a child and I continue to use it to explain to others.

When a loved one dies... you see their body.. you know its an empty shell with no life in it.. you know that something is missing.. the part of them that is their personality... the part that made them unique and different from everyone else... that is the soul.

When people get old and their body slows down gets tired and is broken... they still have that soul that yearns to express itself in their personality... the soul isnt tired and old.. just the body.

Hope that helps

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

This is how it was explained to me as a child and I continue to use it to explain to others.

When a loved one dies... you see their body.. you know its an empty shell with no life in it.. you know that something is missing.. the part of them that is their personality... the part that made them unique and different from everyone else... that is the soul.

When people get old and their body slows down gets tired and is broken... they still have that soul that yearns to express itself in their personality... the soul isnt tired and old.. just the body.

Hope that helps

The "soul" is that which God dreamed of, well before He stitched us together in our mother's womb. In otherwords, we were alive and whole in God's mind, before we took on corporial form.

Psalms...

v/r

Q

[Bishadi]

This is how it was explained to me as a child and I continue to use it to explain to others.

But have you learned more since?

When a loved one dies... you see their body.. you know its an empty shell with no life in it.. you know that something is missing.. the part of them that is their personality... the part that made them unique and different from everyone else... that is the soul.

Sounds good. Makes sense but unfortunately incorrect. A personality is part of learned character. But if you bumped your head, or had an illness that affected your memory, all that would change. As all memories of events are part of your body.

When people get old and their body slows down gets tired and is broken... they still have that soul that yearns to express itself in their personality... the soul isnt tired and old.. just the body.

Some 'yes', but others 'no' ............. many of the wise, love to share what wisedom they learned. That is natrual and good but then others are not as such and too busy still worrying about self preservation.

A soul is what you leave upon existence. Each and every act and imposition you cause while in physical life, is your soul. Almost like your wake upon the water of life. If your wake supports life to continue even when the boat stops, then you did good. See Darwin, JC, Newton, Confucious.... they each left the building and returned to mother earth, but alive just the same within their gifts to our species. So when you buy a pair of cool shoes ask yourself, are they what I want left on earth when I 'leave the building'?

[Tao_Equus]

Nobody here knew what i was talking about,
I say nobody really knew what I was talking about,
She had diamonds on the soul of her shoes.....
Diamonds on the soles of her shoes.

Loved ones who care for the victims of Alzheimers disease commonly report that they are living with a stranger in the body of someone they once knew. Clearly our personality, which is our individual essence, can depart before death occurs. It proves there is no soul but just bioelectrical machinery responsible for who we are.

But, and its no small but, Bashadi is right, its what we leave in our wake that gives us any possibility of maintaining a presence after the machine has passed away. Supernatural beliefs in an afterlife are just romantic mechanisms of denial over our own mortality.

Tao

[Dream]

Echoing Tao_E. Too much coffee can make you angry and unforgiving, but drinking water makes your outlook relatively positive. Not enough sleep can cause forgetfulness. Damage to particular parts of the brain will damage particular parts of your personality -- which in turn will affect other parts.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dream

Echoing Tao_E. Too much coffee can make you angry and unforgiving, but drinking water makes your outlook relatively positive. Not enough sleep can cause forgetfulness. Damage to particular parts of the brain will damage particular parts of your personality -- which in turn will affect other parts.

Are we discussing the mechanism of the body, or the experience that is associated with the body? In otherwords, the body (a machine), registers stimuli. But what of the conscious experience that goes with that registry of stimuli? It is a non-physical phenomenon, yet we do experience something, and we remember that experience. Furthermore, we can recall that experience and relive the emotion that that experience generated. And we can do that at will, or else have it forced upon us. So for a moment, we are able to live in that time and that expeirience, though it has long passed.

We do not understand the dibilitating results of the body's ability to respond to stimuli. All we know is that the person trapped within the malfunctioning body, can not express themselves as you or I can (under normal conditions). But that does not qualify a dibilitated person as a "non entity", simply because they can no longer react to the world as we expect them to. It simply means they no longer have the mechanisms to interact with the outside world (that is you and I, and their surroundings). Their character isn't gone, it still exists (since we know that energy can not be created nor destroyed). And sometimes it breaks free of the confines placed upon it, and shocks those that love that person, which generates hope. Hope is not something a "machine" could ever conceptualize, since it has no substance, is not an algorhythm, and can not be physically defined.

Example: When I shattered my arm and leg, the doctors placed "nerve blocks" to those limbs, while they put them back together. Now I was aware that my limbs were numb, and I could not move them because of the nural block interupting the signals from those limbs, but I still knew they existed and were attached. I knew that, yet I sensed something was wrong, because I could not command them to do my bidding. In short, I was trapped in a disfunctional body, yet I was aware of self and that disfunctioning part of myself.

The comatose victim who is considered consciously brain dead, yet can hear and feel their family around them, and struggles to rise to the "surface" in order to "contact" their family, and let them know they are still around.

The dream state we sometimes achieve wherein our bodies are paralyzed, yet we still think and fight to regain control of our bodies and "consciousness", in order to react within the physical world.

This is not biometrics. Just because the body (machine) might not function correctly, does not mean the spirit within is not there. Unlike a state of the art vehicle which shuts down to protect the rest of the system, and never considers the option of trying to start up again, the human being struggles to become "operational" again. The human being registers time. The human being dreams and fights to live.

Unlike a machine, the human being has something within that strives to exist, contemplates feelings, looks for answers that can not be logically or pysically found, yet finds them anyway.

What is that driving force? What is that part of us that refuses to die, or chooses to die? What part of that makes us so different that we would deliberately lay down our life, for something or someone dear to us? It certainly is not self preservation. It is not some instinct. It is choice and choice comes from other than the basic electrochemical function of a machine, computer and ancillory systems that make up the physical body.

There is a soul. And when it leaves the body, the body changes (even if kept alive by machines). To look at a functioning body with no body home, is one of the saddest sights a loved one can experience.

In my life I have witness many "drown victims". Some I knew were gone, others I knew were still in their but could not hang on, and others still weren't giving up without a fight, as long as we helped them from the outside. All suffered the same plight. Physically all were dead, but what was inside was not.

v/r

Q

[greymare]

how can i be uncertain there is a god and yet absolutely positive that we have souls?? I cannot explain what a soul is........ and yet I know I have one. I also am sure that some people have souls that are ....????(tainted??) i dont know if thats the right word. Some people that are evil, yes you know the ones I mean, the truly vile and evil people , they have souls i suppose but tainted ( is the only word i can use) . So, I guess, i know we have souls.