What is America thinking?

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Historical facts may point to a factual conspiracy. It can however take an open mind and an ability to re-evaluate ones preconceived ideas to accept ugly truths. Some are able to make up there own minds. Some are not. Denial can be a comfort blanket some cannot relinquish. And some just follow whom they see to be most powerful through sheer self interest or cowardice regardless of the atrocities they become supportive of.

I will be posting an extended history of the Bush family and its connections in a forthcoming post. All my research is drawn from the historical records in Government Archives. I will be posting it in the Conspiracy Theory thread. Something you may smirk at thinking of the word conspiracy in a pejorative sense. I realise I would be no more able to persuade you to take what I will write seriously than you would to convert me to believing in your ideas of faith. I have a feeling much of the content of what I will write may go against what you believe to be true. But all my research is public domain and you are free to check it and shoot me down for any errors your find. Have fun

Tao

lol sounds like a Michael Moore spinoff

[Snoopy]

For those not impersonating an ostrich try this:

ITV - John Pilger - Home

s.

[Muslimwoman]

There is a documentary I look forward to seeing.

I found this on the site and didn't know whether to laugh, cry or go and throw a brick through her window:

When asked on US television whether the death of 500,000 Iraqi children as a result of sanctions was justified Madelaine Albright replied "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price - we think the price is worth it."

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

There is a documentary I look forward to seeing.

I found this on the site and didn't know whether to laugh, cry or go and throw a brick through her window:

When asked on US television whether the death of 500,000 Iraqi children as a result of sanctions was justified Madelaine Albright replied "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price - we think the price is worth it."

If you mean the War on Democracy it was on the other night but I missed it , as I missed the Muslim Jesus.

But I read about the Pilger doc. in the press and it is supposedly available on the net in full but not managed to find it. The CIA interviewee in it was as you'd expect (MW) a total....

How many coups has the US instigated against democratic governments since WW2?

s.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

How many coups has the US instigated against democratic governments since WW2?

s.

Wait a minute I will need to take my shoes off .....

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Wait a minute I will need to take my shoes off .....

You'll need some friends' digits too.

s.

[Muslimwoman]

Here is some bedtime reading for you Snoop:

Democracy Now! | Freedom Next Time: Filmmaker & Journalist John Pilger on Propaganda, the Press, Censorship and Resisting the American Empire

All I can say about this is OMG

John Pilger's ZNet HomePage

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

If you mean the War on Democracy it was on the other night but I missed it , as I missed the Muslim Jesus.

But I read about the Pilger doc. in the press and it is supposedly available on the net in full but not managed to find it. The CIA interviewee in it was as you'd expect (MW) a total....

How many coups has the US instigated against democratic governments since WW2?

s.

This documentary was on again last night. The figures are that the US has backed 50 coups and invaded 30 countries since WW2. In almost every event they were backing fascist dictatorships and not democracies. Many of the leaders and their henchman were trained at The School of the Americas in Georgia where the curriculum included torture and interrogation techniques and how to set up and manage death squads to hunt down opponents. The identical pattern we saw in all the coups of Latin America through the 60's to 80's is thus no accident but well honed training received from the CIA with full collusion from amongst others the Bush dynasty.
Whilst arms and brutality flowed one way the US received cocaine to keep the masses wasted and ignorant of all but their own need, and the "moral majority" blinded by the domestic problems all those addicts cause. The Bush family are heavily involved in the wholesale importation of cocaine. The "war on drugs" is nothing of the kind.... it is "war on the competition". The backing of governments like that in Columbia is nothing more than seeking a monopoly on supply of cocaine to the western world. Just as overthrowing the Taliban was nothing to do with attacking Al Qaeda and everything to do with restoring the opium production the Taliban had come close to stopping altogether. The Opium trade from that region the Bush family and associates have been deeply involved in for over 140 years and is worth some $100 billion annually, the 3rd most profitable global industry after oil and arms, which...as you will all know by now, the 2 other major cartels of Bush associates.
The documentary "War on Democracy" has shown us clearly that US Republican administrations are no believers in democracy, quite the opposite. It is heartening to see that despite the danger that peoples like those in Bolivia and Venezuela, the common people, are now rising to wrest power from the Washington puppets. What we need now is a similar rise in western nations against the lie of globalisation under control of the current capitalistic gangsters. Trouble is for now the majority in the "west" are sitting just too comfy in the lie of our economies subsidised by third world rape.

Tao

[Muslimwoman]

Hi Tao

Great to see you back - or is it one of your nip in, nip out things? We miss you.

I can't believe I missed the documentary twice. Thanks for the background on it though, very nasty stuff but no big surprise.

Salaam

[Tao_Equus]

Hi and ty,

Just another fleeting visit. My life is suddenly very full as I have a new job, doing 2 jobs at the moment. So I wont be on much till I return from holiday 3rd week in September and just have my new job to do. Its primarily with Friends of the Earth but also with several other small ethical charities and is a welcome career change. But no doubt I'll still find time to pop in and rant between now and then.

Regards

Tao

[wil]

I'd love to see the documentary and the connections with the Bush family.

While I'll agree that the US is not lily white and does look out for certain interests often while purporting to do other things there is a flip side to the coin.

And before anyone responds with how Ford or Kennedy supported Hitler...yeah we've got plenty of egg on our face....but the fact is if the US and its military machine did not step in, if all of our citizens did not step up...a lot of the world would be speaking German today.

You can grump today, but ask your neighbors who lived through the bombs dropping what they thought of the Yanks. Ask the Aussies who were watching Japan head toward their shores what they think of Americans.

It is true that we've got our share of the blame, but we've stepped upto aid countries around the world....hundreds of billions of dollars are spent to the benefit of not just the few autocrats....but many around the world....we've got our foibles....but we get a little credit along the way.

And while I don't support the decision to take out Sadam and I don't support the war...the big problem was that once the decision was made the execution of it was miserable. It should have been just like occupation of Germany, Japan, or Italy...all guns are laid down and anyone with one is shot on site...marshall law, new gov't set up, military bases established, protect the borders, and stay until the people and the gov't are ready to operate on their own...(how many US bases and soldiers are still in Japan and Germany....and how big an issue is that today??)

Iraq, a bad plan poorly executed.

[Vajradhara]

America still has forces in Japan and Germany.

We, until quite recently, also had forces in the Phillipenese which were a result of the Spanish-American war in the late 1800's.

i suppose that i didn't see the "aid" part exsluively.. i also saw the part where it said "new arms sales".

that said, the largest arms dealers on earth are all permanent members of the U.N. Security Council. the single most common weapon earth is an assault rifle of Soviet design, the AK47-97 models. those are not sold by the United States.

the United States finds itself often in a no-win situation.. after world war one, we tried to be ioslationists and stay out of world affairs.. but the machanitions of the British SiS brought us out of that view and engaged us in the pre-war effort, escorting convoys and that sorta thing.

i suppose that the old saying.. you can't please all the people all the time, is a very apropos sentiment for American foreign policy.

i agree with Cyberpi... people kill people. if they didn't have guns, they'd use rocks and sticks. until this basic drive is mollified there will always be folks in the market for some new weapons and plenty of choices from whom they purchase them.


metta,

~v

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Its primarily with Friends of the Earth but also with several other small ethical charities and is a welcome career change. But no doubt I'll still find time to pop in and rant between now and then.

I am green with envy. Good luck with the new job, I am sure you will do very well.

Look forward to your rants, when you find time.

Salaam

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by wil

It is true that we've got our share of the blame, but we've stepped upto aid countries around the world....hundreds of billions of dollars are spent to the benefit of not just the few autocrats....but many around the world....we've got our foibles....but we get a little credit along the way.

Hi Wil

I admire that the US will step up to the plate when needed and that Americans are prepared to lay their lives on the line for countries they have never seen. I have never believed that armies should stay within their borders and let everyone else fight for themselves. What would have happened to the Bosnian people if we had shrugged and said none of our business? I cried when I visited one of the American cemetaries in Germany, the men were so young and so many died in WWII to protect people on the other side of the world. That was an honourable thing to do.

I am not America bashing. Wait until you hear my views on the UN, although I will have to watch my language.

All Snoopy and I are talking about is goverment support for regimes that they publically say they oppose and unfortunately the US government is guilty of this hypocracy so many times in recent history. They supported Saddam, until they decided to kill him. My objection is that our governments, mine included, are playing chess with peoples lives and we have left a trail of dead and dying behind our foreign policies. I am no politial expert but it seems to me our governments will support any regime in order to control import/exports as our countries wealth is built on trade and getting hold of cheap resources. But it is the people in those countries that suffer, through brutal regimes that our governments support, then when we decide to remove those regimes (as in Iraq). Our arrogance just spins my head sometimes.

Our soldiers (with the odd individual exceptions) have nothing to be ashamed of but our governments do imo.

Salaam

[farhan]

The question should have been "do Americans know".

You will be amazed, in 2003 Americans were getting Pakistanis trained to attack China. And these poor souls did carry out some suicide attacks in China. As a result China stopped giving visas at the border & many innocent Uighur muslims were killed in sucpicion. A muslim cleric who raised voice against it (Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai) was shotdead by unknown assassins.

The problem was that Pakistan was giving full access of its deep sea port at Gawadar to china. Americans were obviously infuriated, but they cant just kick out Pakistan from the equation as they need her to keep on stabbing Afghanistan. Recently intellence people have said that American, Israeli, British& Indian intelligence have now laid down a whole espionage infrestructure in Northern Afghanistan, to counter ex-commi cousins & muslims. Central Asian Islamic Militants & assasination of Chinese people in Pakistan is also a part of it. In ME we are supposed to see more tiny states

A colder cold war has just begun.

Not to mention in the middle of all that, Himalyan glaciars are melting at an alarming rate, that will turn all china & all south asia into desert. And if a small percentage of Antartica's glaciers melt away, that will take around 3/4th of human population in salty water.

Man is such a fool.