What is Baha'i?

[BruceDLimber]

Quite so, Art!

And as to the individual he "recommended," suffice it to say that this individual is one of those who wants the Baha'i Faith to conform to HIS desires and opinions rather than to operate the way the Baha'i scriptures say it's supposed to. (Such things as his wanting to override rulings of the National Spiritual Assembly, for example.)

I am not impressed.

Peace,

Bruce

[kiwimac]

Bruce,

Be as unimpressed as you like. The requirement to seek out truth in an unfettered way does not need to conform to you or to your likings or dislikings. Whether you agree with Glaysher is beside the point.

If you want people to become informed Baha'is who have made conscious decisions then you must, perforce, allow them access to sites / places with which you personally disagree.

Kiwimac

[kiwimac]

Oh, and as for my bona fides. I really don't care what you think of me. I have been thinking, praying and searching all of my life, IMO the search is more important than the answer, the journey more significant than the arrival.

Kiwimac

[arthra]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

Bruce,

Be as unimpressed as you like. The requirement to seek out truth in an unfettered way does not need to conform to you or to your likings or dislikings. Whether you agree with Glaysher is beside the point.

If you want people to become informed Baha'is who have made conscious decisions then you must, perforce, allow them access to sites / places with which you personally disagree.

Kiwimac

Kiwi:

I don't think Bruce indicated he was for suppressing any information...only registering his disapproval. There are as you know anti-Baha'i sites online and people can access them... Rather than rehash someone elses' material though, I think you can post your own ideas or critiques...but if you do, expect that someone will likely counter them.

- Art

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by arthra

... someone will likely counter them.

Such is the spark of differing opinions but this is different the willful obstinancy.....

[kiwimac]

Friends,

Either we accept that the search for truth will take people in places we personally do not like or we admit that we like to talk about searching for the truth but in reality we simply mean "our truth", as encompassed by "our faith" and expressed by "our kind of people."

Shoghi Effendi inevitably altered the faith given by Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha simply by being a human being with his own particular concerns, his own particular hopes and fears.

Kiwimac

[arthra]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

Friends,

Either we accept that the search for truth will take people in places we personally do not like or we admit that we like to talk about searching for the truth but in reality we simply mean "our truth", as encompassed by "our faith" and expressed by "our kind of people."

Shoghi Effendi inevitably altered the faith given by Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha simply by being a human being with his own particular concerns, his own particular hopes and fears.

Kiwimac

Kiwi,

Good to hear from you again! How are you?

I don't think most Baha'is would agree with your statement that:

"Shoghi Effendi inevitably altered the faith given by Baha'u'llah...."

As you probably recall when you were a Baha'i, Shoghi Effendi translated some of the Writings into English and probably his greatest contribution was building the Administrative Order based on the Kitab-i-Aqdas and the Will and Testament of Abdul-Baha, but he would in my view stoutly deny altering anything in "....the faith given by Baha'u'llah." If anything he implemented what was already there in the Writings.

To many outside the Faith it might appear there were changes from the 1920's to the 1950's., the structure of the local Baha'i community, etc. under his Guardianship. But again i think this was because it was his primary task to raise the administrative structure to prepare for the Universal House of Justice in 1963 and all of this was provided for again in the Writings.

So you had a maturing process that has really been an ongoing dynamic in our Faith from the beginning, but no one has in my view altered anything in the "faith given by Baha'u'llah". It's still there and today more of us than in the past can study and appreciate it!

- Art

[kiwimac]

Art,

Thanks, been having trouble with the computer so my online time has been limited of late.

I suppose we are talking past one another here. I see Shoghi Effendi as essentially human, his hopes, his fears, his trials and tribulations colouring the way he saw the faith, inevitably moving it in directions he was comfortable with.

I consider the Baha'i faith to have limitless possibilites but, and this is just me, I don't see it living up to its potential.

Kiwimac

[smkolins]

Another way to look it is this is in pictures.

I've been away from this discussion area for several weeks because my wife and I have been away on an international adoption in Ukraine where in addition to beurocratic inertia we also spent some time flat on our backs in a hospital thanks to a lovely bacteria I wouldn't wish on an enemy. But back to my point, while over there and around we ran into many Baha'is who wanted to see something of our life in the States. So I combined some of our pictures before our trip, several from our 3 Day Visit in Haifa, where the Baha'i Faith has ... well you can see for yourself, and most of our trip in Ukraine - we've since returned home just a few days ago...

Here's the Pages of Pictures and a few movies scattered around. For the weiry internet travelor, and those that pay by the bit like many in Ukraine, I've reoptimized the pictures to be far smaller than they could be with little loss of resolution (below what the eye can see.)

[smkolins]

As for not living up to it's potential... well there are more ways to measure that than there are people alive.

But it is clear that part of a religion is a social dynamic and that means part of the condition of a religion is due to it's membership. It is clear that indeed the Baha'i Faith could be more than it is - and it is right at our feet and hands to do nothing more than our part. It is largely through apathy and disgruntlement that energy for making what was asked of us to become becomes caught up in other pursuits.

But it has ever been the case with religion - all religions have a history of what humanity has on it's hands, and all religions have the divine bestowal leading that weary one to his refreshment. But then when refreshed what does the weary one do so often but then wander away, so used to thirst that water holds too little attraction.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by smkolins

Another way to look it is this is in pictures.

I've been away from this discussion area for several weeks because my wife and I have been away on an international adoption in Ukraine where in addition to beurocratic inertia we also spent some time flat on our backs in a hospital thanks to a lovely bacteria I wouldn't wish on an enemy. But back to my point, while over there and around we ran into many Baha'is who wanted to see something of our life in the States. So I combined some of our pictures before our trip, several from our 3 Day Visit in Haifa, where the Baha'i Faith has ... well you can see for yourself, and most of our trip in Ukraine - we've since returned home just a few days ago...

Here's the Pages of Pictures and a few movies scattered around. For the weiry internet travelor, and those that pay by the bit like many in Ukraine, I've reoptimized the pictures to be far smaller than they could be with little loss of resolution (below what the eye can see.)

Greetings,

Just wanted to say congratulations on your adoption! Blessings to your family.

peace,
lunamoth

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by smkolins

I've been away from this discussion area for several weeks because my wife and I have been away on an international adoption in Ukraine where in addition to beurocratic inertia we also spent some time flat on our backs in a hospital thanks to a lovely bacteria I wouldn't wish on an enemy.

Oh my!

What a precious little one you have.

Congratulations!

[smkolins]

Thanks folks!