what is the opinion of these two sites

[LeoSalinas22]

Originally Posted by Prober

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-19 (source: Internet Sacred Text Archive Home)

(imo) in my opinion

that is so funny! lol! i was one verse off!

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

Take a look at this quote. Do you see anything about the Sabbath? Paul mentions four prohibitions: adultery, murder, theft, and covetiousness, and then says that any other commandments that there may be are as well summed in the concept of loving one's neighbor as oneself. Emphasis is placed on the four prohibitions, zero emphasis is placed on the Sabbath. It's included in the subset of "whatever else there may be."

"he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law." This is the Christian message in a nutshell. Nothing about Sabbath, or who you can sell your daughter into slavery to, or which animals it's not OK to eat. Just Love.

But which law - G-d's law or man's? Catch the way the chapter begins...

1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: Romans 13:1-3 (source: BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 50 versions and 35 languages.)



This seems to be a discussion of how to make the local authorities happy. Of course, I've been wrong before.

[Sunny C.]

Originally Posted by Prober

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-19 (source: Internet Sacred Text Archive Home)

(imo) in my opinion

The key word is fulfil. The law is not destroyed, it is fulfilled. This is why Paul says that Love is the fulfillment of the law. Look at where the text you quoted is. It immediately follows this:

13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. 14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Prober

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-19 (source: Internet Sacred Text Archive Home)

(imo) in my opinion

My favorite commentator:

Matthew 5:17-20

Let none suppose that Christ allows his people to trifle with any commands of God’s holy law. No sinner partakes of Christ’s justifying righteousness, till he repents of his evil deeds. The mercy revealed in the gospel leads the believer to still deeper self-abhorrence. The law is the Christian’s rule of duty, and he delights therein. If a man, pretending to be Christ’s disciple, encourages himself in any allowed disobedience to the holy law of God, or teaches others to do the same, whatever his station or reputation among men may be, he can be no true disciple. Christ’s righteousness, imputed to us by faith alone, is needed by every one that enters the kingdom of grace or of glory; but the new creation of the heart to holiness, produces a thorough change in a man’s temper and conduct.

[Sunny C.]

Loving one's neighbor as oneself is a very difficult thing to do. It doesn't surprise me that most Christians would want to crawl back into the letter of the law, that's a lot easier than doing what Jesus said.

[Sunny C.]

You're being obtuse Mark. Apply Occam's razor. What is the simplest explanation?

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

The key word is fulfil. The law is not destroyed, it is fulfilled. This is why Paul says that Love is the fulfillment of the law. Look at where the text you quoted is. It immediately follows this:

Fulfillment of which law? Still seems to me Paul is speaking of man's law and how to get along in society.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

You're being obtuse Mark. Apply Occam's razor. What is the simplest explanation?

Sorry - Not trying to be. Did you read the opening three verses?

If I'm making too much of this, I'll drop it.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Let none suppose that Christ allows his people to trifle with any commands of God’s holy law. No sinner partakes of Christ’s justifying righteousness, till he repents of his evil deeds. The mercy revealed in the gospel leads the believer to still deeper self-abhorrence. The law is the Christian’s rule of duty, and he delights therein. If a man, pretending to be Christ’s disciple, encourages himself in any allowed disobedience to the holy law of God, or teaches others to do the same, whatever his station or reputation among men may be, he can be no true disciple. Christ’s righteousness, imputed to us by faith alone, is needed by every one that enters the kingdom of grace or of glory; but the new creation of the heart to holiness, produces a thorough change in a man’s temper and conduct.

Amen!

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

Loving one's neighbor as oneself is a very difficult thing to do. It doesn't surprise me that most Christians would want to crawl back into the letter of the law, that's a lot easier than doing what Jesus said.

Unfortunately true.

[Sunny C.]

Originally Posted by Prober

Fulfillment of which law? Still seems to me Paul is speaking of man's law and how to get along in society.

Two things: The Law, and the Commandments. Paul adresses both and ties them together. Is it also your contention that Paul is referring to the commandments of man, whatever that might be? I mean, the four prohibitions he mentions come straight out of the Ten Commandments.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

Two things: The Law, and the Commandments. Paul adresses both and ties them together. Is it also your contention that Paul is referring to the commandments of man, whatever that might be? I mean, the four prohibitions he mentions come straight out of the Ten Commandments.

Here's what I think he's saying...

"Obey your local rulers because that's what G-d wants you to do. For example, look at the laws (commandments) G-d gave you...this and that are specifically designed to make you get along peacefully with your neighbors and the rest of them, well, they're generally the same thing. Your rulers won't get in the way of G-d's laws because rulers don't care if you do good. They only care if you do evil. So take advantage of this opportunity and do good so that people will honor your father in heaven."

[Sunny C.]

How about this: Don't piss off the authorities by insisting on following the arcane letter of the ceremonial law, because in reality the point of the law is to love your neighbor.

But again, Paul is saying that the specificities of the commandments are encompassed, or more briefly comprehended in terms of love of neighbor. It's like saying that all the minute movements and elements of the golf swing are briefly comprehended by considering the thing as a singular action. While the specificities may be instructive, they don't substitute for just getting up there and smacking it.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

Loving one's neighbor as oneself is a very difficult thing to do. It doesn't surprise me that most Christians would want to crawl back into the letter of the law, that's a lot easier than doing what Jesus said.

Amen! (Do they use Occam's razor?)

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

How about this: Don't piss off the authorities by insisting on following the arcane letter of the ceremonial law

I read back through it (Romans 13) again. I really don't think this is what Paul is saying.

because in reality the point of the law is to love your neighbor.

The point (imo) is to love "the Lord your G-d" with all your mind, etc and your neighbor as yourself.

But again, Paul is saying that the specificities of the commandments are encompassed, or more briefly comprehended in terms of love of neighbor. It's like saying that all the minute movements and elements of the golf swing are briefly comprehended by considering the thing as a singular action. While the specificities may be instructive, they don't substitute for just getting up there and smacking it.

I generally agree with your point here.