What is the soul? - Page 3

louis · 05-16-2004, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac1

Who knows! :- Here's a few possibilities though.

(a)Your astral body. If the soul exists, then it could possibly be descibed as an astral representation of the pysical self, in a quite traditional classic art sense. The essense of what makes us alive. This description of the soul is one in which the soul can wander away from the body in the form of either astral projection, an OOBE or an NDE. You can actually exist as 2 people, but only experience things as your astral self. People who have had NDE's often claim to have hovered above their bodies, and seen a silver thread of energy connecting the solar plexus of their astral self, to the solar plexus of their physical body. In this concept of the soul, the body is simply a shell, all that is you is your soul. This is the type of soul related to described by those who believe in the afterlife, reincarnation, auras, or the astral body.

(b) Your individuality. A much more philosophical way of looking at the soul is that it is not in any way material. The soul is the part of you that stops you from simply being a mindless automaton. This type of soul is the part of you that makes all those rash illogical descisions, the part of you that analyses everything differently to everyone else, the part of you that makes you ... ... ... well you. In this concept of the soul, it cannot leave your body, as it is not at all physical. The soul is fully integrated with the body, once it leaves you, you die, what happens after is a much debated topic.

(c) Your empathy. The part of you that can feel other peoples emotion. Some believe that the soul is your emotional center, the part of us that makes us perceptive of each others pains, desires, etc. A psychic energy that is part of you, and linked spiritually to all other souls.

(d) Human arrogance! It is entirely possible of course that there is no soul, and that the arrogant human desire to see beyond the realms of the world around us has led our species to concoct the concept of the soul as an assurance that we have more than 80 years to live. The notion that we are simply born and die through a chemical process is quite a bleak one, the possibility that the soul does not exist should therefore be considered. It is in our nature as a species to try to deny the inevitable, therefore the possibility that the soul is simply an imaginary form of pyschological security that once we die we are not gone for good, should not be overlooked. After all very few people are truly prepared to simply not exist any more, the concept of an afterlife also helps grieving, the possibility that we just die and that's it, is too hard for some people to accept.

(e) A psychic shadow. As demonstrated be anyone who has ever taken and/or seen any Kirlian photography. A warm healing energy surrounding and engulfing the physical body.

From Louis...
I suspect ( d ) is closest to the truth - but here's
another spin on it...
A permanet file on God's "hard drive" -
If there really is an eternal being out there, his MEMORY
would also be eternal - all his ideas would exist forever.
And since ALL things begin as ideas, so do WE - each of
us may exist forever in God's memory - to be re-activated
(or erased) any time God might wish to do so.

Karehndiujo Mohmid · 07-16-2004, 10:25 AM

It is the Spirit.

samabudhi · 07-16-2004, 11:47 AM

Great. So what's the spirit?
Is it ones intention?

Mus Zibii · 07-17-2004, 08:07 AM

Its that little tab of skin between the scrotum and the anus.

But seriously, its life. Its the spark of the divine that gives everything breath. You die, it returns to God where it originated, and your body returns to earth, where it originated. Regardless of whether you were a good little boy or girl, a Catholic Saint or Lenin, thus is your fate.

Erynn · 07-17-2004, 10:16 PM

I believe that the spiritual part of a person has many pieces -- soul, spirit, fetch -- whatever you want to call them. I think they're all integral parts of human existance. I believe that we have dreaming spirits, the soul that deals with rational mind and daylight reality, soul parts that walk outside our body dealing with soul business while our bodies deal with more mundane things. I believe that there are souls and spirits that gather around us according to our perceptions and abilities, helping us and guiding us through difficult situations. Some might call these "guardian angels" while others might refer to them as "spirit guides" or "totems" or by other names.

In shamanic belief (it's one of the types of belief I ascribe to), one can lose parts of one's soul through shock or trauma, by violating certain kinds of geasa or taboos, or by being attacked by non-corporeal entities or other humans on a spiritual level.

A psychologist named Bill Plotkin wrote a lovely book called Soulcraft: Crossing into the Mysteries of Nature and Psyche that I think expresses his view of the difference between soul and spirit very nicely. It's a well written, very useful book, and for those with an inclination to nature reverence or mysticism of any sort, I'd highly recommend reading it through and considering trying some of the exercises he suggests.

He says:

"By soul I mean the vital, mysterious, and wild core of our individual selves, an essence unique to each person, qualities found in layers of the self much deeper than our personalities. By spirit I mean the single, great, and eternal mystery that permeates and animates everything in the universe and yet transcends all. Ultimately, each soul exists as an agent for spirit."

This said, I believe in many kinds of spirits -- ancestor spirits, animal spirits, tree spirits, stone spirits, river and mountain and cloud spirits. My belief is fairly animist at root. It is my belief that everything natural that exists, and some things created by humans, are animated by spirit -- that everything has spirit, is spirit. I believe, in essence that all things in nature have a soul of some sort. I don't believe that any of it is inherently evil, though I do believe that the desires and goals of much of the universe are not those of humans, and that when we and these other spirits act at cross-purposes, humans may perceive a lot of it as "evil" because it runs counter to our own natures and our potential for survival. But if a bear attacks and kills a human, it's not "evil". Most of the time it's because a human is disturbing bear territory, is too close to cubs, or has somehow otherwise provoked the bear.

Most forms of Paganism don't accept the existence of "Satan" -- a specific deity devoted to evildoing. To me, saying that non-human/angelic spirits are "satanic" seems quite absurd. In a polytheist reality like mine, the idea that there is one great maker of Evil makes no sense, as there is no one great maker of Good. Within the realm of my own belief, derived from early Irish and Scottish forms of Paganism, there was no one original creation, for instance. The creation of different places and features of landscape occurred at different times and were caused by different spirits or deities, in the same way that the Adirondaks of the east coast of the US are far more ancient mountains than the Himalayas. To me, creation is an ongoing process, not a static, one-time event that requires one Great Maker.

I know this is straying somewhat from the topic, but I did want to address that point, as it was brought up in another post.

A note to Aerylon -- a lot of people convert from Christianity to Wicca or other forms of Paganism. I did it myself. In fact, the majority of modern Pagans in the west are converts from Christianity and Judaeism. I was raised in a fairly fundamentalist family, though my own parents are more or less Christian agnostic and a lapsed Catholic atheist. I was taken to church every Sunday "because it's good for you." I went to a fundamentalist Christian private school in 5th and 6th grades. What all that exposure taught me was that Christianity as it was presented in these environments made no sense to me. What I read of Paganism, however, did make sense. It took a while to let go of all the Christian programming, and I will admit that a certain amount still lurks under the surface, but for the most part the kind of Christianity I was raised in is very alien to me now. I had a hard time justifying those beliefs when I had them, and now they feel like they come from some different planet. Blessings to those for whom Christianity expresses a soul-truth, but religion, like socks, is not one size fits all. Or, as Robert Heinlein might have put it, being in the wrong religion for your heart is like socks on a rooster -- it looks funny and annoys the rooster.

sjr · 07-17-2004, 10:39 PM

Deep thoughts by Jack handy,

I believe there is a difference between a "dead body" and a "living body" for me that difference is "Soul".Is it in my mind,in my fingers while i type,or in my mouth when i talk? The aliveness i say is soul.So we have body, soul (aliveness,energy) where does thoughts fit in? "As a man thinkith so shall he be","in the begining there was "word", maybe thoughts are the last third of our existance?

Erynn · 07-17-2004, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjr

I believe there is a difference between a "dead body" and a "living body" for me that difference is "Soul".Is it in my mind,in my fingers while i type,or in my mouth when i talk? The aliveness i say is soul.So we have body, soul (aliveness,energy) where does thoughts fit in? "As a man thinkith so shall he be","in the begining there was "word", maybe thoughts are the last third of our existance?

The mind-body-soul triad does have a long history in many religions and spiritualities. I see it as a reasonable division, and one that makes a good deal of sense.

Mus Zibii · 07-17-2004, 11:54 PM

Me, too.

pswfps · 07-27-2004, 10:46 AM

A soul?

Perhaps a soul is a living memory of you within the eternal mind of God. It is the permanent and eternal mark that is left by us within God.

Just a thought...

Thanks
Paul.

PersonaNonGrata · 07-27-2004, 11:02 AM

The soul is a staple of virtually every known religion, and religion itself would actually be pretty pointless without it.
In early religions, the soul was a basic and largely unstated assumption, since your body would obviously just sit around on its ass unless a soul was giving it directions. In fact, that was pretty much the definition of the soul -- that thing which told your body how to act. It was simple.
Life was good...

[/quote = T.S. Eliot]

We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time. [/coyote]

There is not a 21 gram difference in weight between a living body and a dead one. That's just an urban legend. Sorry )

Vajradhara · 07-28-2004, 10:11 PM

Namaste Personanongrata,

thank you for the post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata

The soul is a staple of virtually every known religion, and religion itself would actually be pretty pointless without it.

whilst this seems to be correct, it's actually not. there are a host of religious traditions around the world that don't have a concept of a soul, especially a permenent, unchanging soul. as i'm sure you are aware, the Buddhist tradition has no conception of a soul and yet, it's doing pretty well as far as religions go

to be frank with you, it sounds like this is your opinion conditioned by your religious belief. why would religion "re-linking" be pointless without a soul?

Quote:

In early religions

which early religions are these?

Quote:

, the soul was a basic and largely unstated assumption, since your body would obviously just sit around on its ass unless a soul was giving it directions.

this would appear to be consciousness, not a soul.

Quote:

In fact, that was pretty much the definition of the soul -- that thing which told your body how to act. It was simple.

i would beg to differ. this does not imply a soul in the least. this does, however, imply consciousness though we can discuss that as well.

Quote:

Life was good...

black plague = not good

pswfps · 07-29-2004, 10:01 AM

Interestingly, Genesis 6:1 suggests that man is just flesh and not of The Spirit?

pswfps · 07-29-2004, 11:48 AM

Just to expound a little, I undertstand that the name "Adam" literally means dirt/earth/mud/ashes combined with the breath of God. It seems logical then that Adam minus the breath of God is just dirt/earth/mud/ashes.

Referring back to Genesis 6:3, God seems to be saying that He shall withdraw His Spirit from man. If we equate His Spirit with the breath of God, then it seems that after the 120 years man will become devoid of the Spirit of God, ie exist purely as dirt/earth/mud/ashes, or if you prefer "flesh".

Now fast forward n thousand years to the New Testament. Somewhere in the Gospel of John, Jesus says that one must first be born of the flesh and then of The Spirit in order to enter the Kingdom of God and eternal life. I take it that "The Spirit" is that of God which was lost all them years beforehand?

Fascinating stuff!

Thanks
Paul.

juantoo3 · 07-29-2004, 06:56 PM

Kindest Regards, pswfps!

I don't know that we've met, welcome to CR!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pswfps

Just to expound a little, I undertstand that the name "Adam" literally means dirt/earth/mud/ashes combined with the breath of God. It seems logical then that Adam minus the breath of God is just dirt/earth/mud/ashes.

Referring back to Genesis 6:3, God seems to be saying that He shall withdraw His Spirit from man. If we equate His Spirit with the breath of God, then it seems that after the 120 years man will become devoid of the Spirit of God, ie exist purely as dirt/earth/mud/ashes, or if you prefer "flesh".

Would that be "breath of God," or "breath of life?" Breath of life I believe is the hebrew word "nephesh", often used of live animals, but also often used to denote human spirit. In the context of spirit, it corresponds to the greek "pneuma" in the New Testament. It's been a while since I looked into this, there is room for my correction.

Blue · 07-30-2004, 01:18 PM

What is the soul?

A strange question, for it can be whatever an individual conceives it to be.

It can be something or nothing!

Each individual has an affective nature and experiences an affective nurture of some kind.
Each individual, spiritually and subjectively, comes to personal understandings.
Therein lies the soul, if one is felt worthy of being conceived as such by the individual at all.

There is, of course, no objective proof of such a conception beyond self in the material world. If there were, there would be no necessity for the concept of a spiritual Faith at all... it would be considered a fact of human existence.