What is the Sound of One hand clapping?

[Dream]

So the purpose of the Koan is to observe the raging wave of the mind against the non-eroding shore? It is the sound of one hand clapping?

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Gatekeeper,

thank you for the post.;

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Call me dim witted, but I don't think I get it.

that is, in fact, the point of Koans.. you are not supposed to "get it". the "get it" teachings are called Mondos. Koans are, generally speaking, designed to shift the habitual thinking patterns into new paths and ways.

there are over 300 used Koans in the Ch'an/Zen traditions and the one that a student is given to study is based upon the teachers understanding of the student and it is quite likely that a student would spend years studying the same Koan until they broke through the habitual thinking patterns after which many other Koans are able to be used.

Koan contemplation is really not part of my practice.. of course i'm not in a Ch'an or Zen school but there it is

metta,

~v

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste Gatekeeper,

thank you for the post.;



that is, in fact, the point of Koans.. you are not supposed to "get it". the "get it" teachings are called Mondos. Koans are, generally speaking, designed to shift the habitual thinking patterns into new paths and ways.

In other words, to drive you out of your mind (and into new territory.)

[bananabrain]

the sound of one hand clapping is, of course, "cl".

or "ap", depending on which hand you use.

however, i have also heard that some abbots then clout the acolyte hard around the head, then grin broadly and say: "you see? one hand!"

b'shalom

bananabrain

[wil]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

however, i have also heard that some abbots then clout the acolyte hard around the head, then grin broadly and say: "you see? one hand!"

hehe, back when I were an ass, that used to be my answer. What's the sound of one hand clapping? "Whap" What do you mean whap? (oh how we loved it when that question was asked...I think I learned that one in the school yard, and then who knows how often I repeated it...)

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste Gatekeeper,

thank you for the post.;



that is, in fact, the point of Koans.. you are not supposed to "get it". the "get it" teachings are called Mondos. Koans are, generally speaking, designed to shift the habitual thinking patterns into new paths and ways.

there are over 300 used Koans in the Ch'an/Zen traditions and the one that a student is given to study is based upon the teachers understanding of the student and it is quite likely that a student would spend years studying the same Koan until they broke through the habitual thinking patterns after which many other Koans are able to be used.

Koan contemplation is really not part of my practice.. of course i'm not in a Ch'an or Zen school but there it is

metta,

~v

I'm not nearly disiplined enough to spend that amount of time contemptaling on a question that has no answer. If it serves to help a person think out of the box, then that's fine, but for the life of me, I don't see where this question could lead a person - Maybe I'm just not a deep thinker like some. :shrug:

Love

James

[Dream]

So nobody here actually participates in Koan practice? I'm a little disappointed because I was expecting some easy-freebie knowledge. No luck, as usual. Maybe this conversation is the sound of one hand clapping?

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Dream

So nobody here actually participates in Koan practice? I'm a little disappointed because I was expecting some easy-freebie knowledge. No luck, as usual. Maybe this conversation is the sound of one hand clapping?

Here, Dream, it could be said that this picture is as good as any analogy representing the practice of Zen:

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Here, Dream, it could be said that this picture is as good as any analogy representing the practice of Zen:

Dream,

I think what SG is trying to tell you is that internal holiness arises from an attitude of reverence.

Secondarily, I think she is trying to say that higher-powered metaphysics doesn't have much practical value in a universe where nobody even notices the difference between sinners and saints and where a waiter at a Tibetan BBQ joint might be unhappy with a $1 tip.

[greymare]

thee sound of one hand clapping.......................................... .................................................. ...................whoooooosh,

[17th Angel]

It makes a unique sound.. Very much like the sound of one finger clicking.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

I'm not nearly disiplined enough to spend that amount of time contemptaling on a question that has no answer. If it serves to help a person think out of the box, then that's fine, but for the life of me, I don't see where this question could lead a person - Maybe I'm just not a deep thinker like some. :shrug:

Love

James

Hi James,

Has no logical rational answer. But that's not the same thing as no answer. The answer is not the point, the point is the change in thinking/perception. Perhaps a modern "take" on koans would be Edward de Bono's lateral thinking.

s.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Dream

I'm a little disappointed because I was expecting some easy-freebie knowledge.

The internet is at your fingertips!

No luck, as usual.

Are we all so disappointing, and so soon?

We transcend mere units of knowledge, that can so easily be gleaned elsewhere!!!

s.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hi James,

Has no logical rational answer. But that's not the same thing as no answer. The answer is not the point, the point is the change in thinking/perception. Perhaps a modern "take" on koans would be Edward de Bono's lateral thinking.

s.

Yeah, I see the point, but I fail to see where it might lead a person. I mean, I'm crazy enough as is - and that's w/o trying to figure out the illogical meaning of a question that could lead to only God knows where, lol. Like I said, I guess I'm just not a deep thinker.

I prefer my fruity pebbles in a bowl, with a spoon.

James

[Ciel]

Gonggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg ggggggggg

- c -