What is the Sound of One hand clapping?

Proph 1 · 07-15-2005, 08:16 AM

Seriously, what IS the sound of one hand clapping?!

Vajradhara · 07-15-2005, 03:03 PM

Namaste proph,

thank you for the post.

in the Ch'an/Zen traditions, this is what is known as a "koan".

Koans are, generally speaking, not questions to be answered, per se, rather, they are methods used to help a being directly realize the limit of discursive intellect and, hopefully, to transcend such a limit.

as such, you shouldn't focus so much on what the answer to the question is, rather, you should try to think of it for yourself.. and.. when your thinking reaches its end... change; then go beyond.

metta,

~v

Proph 1 · 07-15-2005, 06:15 PM

Wow, that was a cool answer. You sound like a Buddist monk, or a fortune cookie.

Vajradhara · 07-16-2005, 07:19 AM

it isn't about being "cool" and i am no monk

metta,

~v

Awaiting_the_fifth · 07-17-2005, 01:26 PM

You do come out with some pretty cool ssounding stuff sometimes though Vaj.

Saponification · 07-18-2005, 07:51 AM

You might like a good called Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. It's considered to be a classic, from what I know. Either way, it's a compilation of several texts and contains a decent-sized collection of koans, stories and sayings. It's a very interesting read.

Haruko · 08-14-2005, 07:58 PM

What do you think the sound of one hand clapping is? There is no "right" answer as there is "wrong" answer. There is only your answer.

satay · 08-15-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph 1

Seriously, what IS the sound of one hand clapping?!

Silence!

satay

seattlegal · 09-01-2005, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proph 1

Seriously, what IS the sound of one hand clapping?!

Mu. {JMHO.}

Thomas · 09-01-2005, 01:16 PM

It has always struck me as a typical example of the western mind completely missing the point when one can buy books of koans, as if one can work one's way through them, like a book of algebra questions. So, presumably, when the abbott asks, "what is the sound..." an urgent hand pops up, "Oh, oh! I know this one!"

My favourite is that other equally famous question, "when a tree falls unheard in the forest, do the other trees snigger?"

Thomas
(No offence implied to anyone here - just a general observation)

seattlegal · 09-01-2005, 01:26 PM

My apologies, Thomas.

Thomas · 09-01-2005, 02:14 PM

None needed!

It was not my intent to 'correct' anyone, although I see that my post might have implied such. Let me say right out I was the owner of just such a book, and there is, apparently, an order to the koans, but they are an experiential thing, not an intellectual thing.

Oooh - unless your response was, in itself, a koan?

(Not being flippant, this is a very imprecise medium of communication, it lacks all subtlety, but my point being that often a simple response can have a koanic effect.)

My own koan:

I watched a TV show once in which a physicist explained that all the heavy elements (carbon, etc) can only be manufactured in one place in the universe - in the heart of a star. It takes a nuclear furnace of stellar magnitude to produce carbon, and every atom of carbon in our bodies came from the heart of a star. "We are indeed," he said flippantly, "stardust."

Now I knew this. I learnt this at school, along with how many HB pencils I can be made into, and really useful stuff like that. So nothing new, and yet, it was, it was, as I sat there on the sofa one Saturday evening, an epiphany.

Can't explain it. Can't convey it. Can't reproduce the moment or the feeling, but it was, as they say, 'something else.'

So that atom, created in a star, spat out into the infinite cosmos, journeyed for immeasurable millenia across unimaginable distances, saw indescribable things, the births and deaths of galaxies, knew heat and light, cold and darkness in extremis ... and ended up ... here, in me ... and not just that one, but millions of 'em, and from all over!

Oh, what a story I could tell, if only I knew ...

Pax,

Thomas
(of course, it could also be strictly local. Made in the sun, popped out, and eleven odd minutes later arrived here ... might not even be a nice person...)

seattlegal · 09-01-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

It was not my intent to 'correct' anyone, although I see that my post might have implied such. Let me say right out I was the owner of just such a book, and there is, apparently, an order to the koans, but they are an experiential thing, not an intellectual thing.
Oooh - unless your response was, in itself, a koan?

(Not being flippant, this is a very imprecise medium of communication, it lacks all subtlety, but my point being that often a simple response can have a koanic effect.)

My original response didn't include my signature, which is my own koan. (How's that for subtlety?

) I usually have to set it up with the "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" koan so people will won't think that I misspelled "moo." {crosses fingers in hope that my signature line displays}

Thomas · 09-01-2005, 02:50 PM

Ahhh ... !

_Z_ · 09-01-2005, 09:22 PM

One could find answers just for fun…

If we made the motion of a single hand clapping, then in a parallel universe another version of us done the same then god would hear the clap [so to say]. If there are infinite parallel universes [which I doubt – except in potential] then there would be infinite variations of the clap which would surely deafen god! Perhaps that’s why he doesn’t hear us!

I like the implied idea that perception & understanding has its limits.