What Is The Source Of Evil?

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by sherry

I'm sorry, but to me this is just like saying:

-gunmakers are responsible for shootings, they instigated them by making the guns
-cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes

No matter WHAT temptation is laid before you, it is still YOUR choice, and your choice alone whether to not to reach for it or turn away. For every person that chooses to embrace a temptation, there are countless more that choose not to. The fault can not be laid upon the tempter because in the end, they didn't force someone to take what was offered.

Kindest Regards, Sherry, and welcome to CR!

May I play devil's advocate for a moment?

While I personally agree with you about choice, do you realize that a great many people are of the opinion that their choices are predetermined, even genetic?

It is pretty well evident that the human body was created to react to nicotine. The human body was created to react in an addictive manner to nicotine. If it didn't, the whole cigarette fiasco would be a non-issue. Now, what "we" know is that different people react somewhat differently to nicotine, some are more prone to addiction than others, and some are more responsive to the effects than others. Some are able to walk away from nicotine quite easily, others struggle with an addiction more gripping than heroin.

You said "cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes." In context you were highlighting the point that cigarette companies did not create the choice to smoke, unless I misunderstood. I agree cigarette companies did not hold a gun to anybody's head and force them to smoke...however:

Cigarette companies have (finally) acknowledged that they did deliberately manipulate the nicotine (and other chemical) levels in cigarettes to make them more addictive. Legal junkies. No, they do not force the first butt into a person's mouth, but they do entice with seductive advertising. And once that first butt is in the mouth, many *are* hooked. Some may take a little longer, but as long as it is socially appealing (sexy gals and red convertibles) more people will continue to try.

The problem isn't so much that cigarettes are addictive, the problem is that they can ruin the typical person's health. Yes, there are the *occasional* stories of 90 year old smokers who have smoked since they were 10. How many can be counted? Compare that number with the countless thousands who have died *prematurely* as a direct result of smoking...I would guess the odds are at least ten thousand to one, probably a lot greater. Pretty high odds to stake a life on.

Actually, as a smoker who is trying to quit, and only been without (this time) for a few months, I am not trying to sell some anti-smoking line either. A person is free to make their own choices...that is where you and I agree.

But the argument "cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes" actually is true, and doesn't truthfully serve to support your final premise. Cigarette companies did not create the addictive tendency in people, but they did everything they could to exploit it. That's just the nature of business...especially pharmaceutical business (legal and otherwise).

My two cents...

[17th Angel]

You know mee, in a christian sense... (cause you don't like the idea of a human having idenpendence lol no free wills for yo!) The source of evil is your god Any better?

[Postmaster]

Evil is never intended as evil. Indeed, the contradiction inherent in all evil is that it originates in the desire to eliminate evil. "The only good Indian is a dead Indian."
Evil arises in the honored belief that history can be tidied up, brought to a sensible conclusion. It is evil to act as though the past is bringing us to a specifiable end. It is evil to assume that the past will make sense only if we bring it to an issue we have clearly in view. It is evil for a nation to believe it is the "last, best hope on earth." It is evil to think history is to end with a return to Zion, or with classless society, or with the Islamicization of all living infidels.
...do not attempt to eliminate evil in others, for to do so is the very impulse of evil itself, and therefore a contradiction.
James P. Carse,

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Chris

Is that statement evil for trying to define evil?

[mee]

[quote=Alex P;150818]I kinda meant it as a joke. Because it is a pathetic excuse lol... In the bible story, Adam and Eve are responsible for what they did, not satan.

"quote]
very true but they were influenced by satan .

[Postmaster]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, Sherry, and welcome to CR!

May I play devil's advocate for a moment?

While I personally agree with you about choice, do you realize that a great many people are of the opinion that their choices are predetermined, even genetic?

It is pretty well evident that the human body was created to react to nicotine. The human body was created to react in an addictive manner to nicotine. If it didn't, the whole cigarette fiasco would be a non-issue. Now, what "we" know is that different people react somewhat differently to nicotine, some are more prone to addiction than others, and some are more responsive to the effects than others. Some are able to walk away from nicotine quite easily, others struggle with an addiction more gripping than heroin.

You said "cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes." In context you were highlighting the point that cigarette companies did not create the choice to smoke, unless I misunderstood. I agree cigarette companies did not hold a gun to anybody's head and force them to smoke...however:

Cigarette companies have (finally) acknowledged that they did deliberately manipulate the nicotine (and other chemical) levels in cigarettes to make them more addictive. Legal junkies. No, they do not force the first butt into a person's mouth, but they do entice with seductive advertising. And once that first butt is in the mouth, many *are* hooked. Some may take a little longer, but as long as it is socially appealing (sexy gals and red convertibles) more people will continue to try.

The problem isn't so much that cigarettes are addictive, the problem is that they can ruin the typical person's health. Yes, there are the *occasional* stories of 90 year old smokers who have smoked since they were 10. How many can be counted? Compare that number with the countless thousands who have died *prematurely* as a direct result of smoking...I would guess the odds are at least ten thousand to one, probably a lot greater. Pretty high odds to stake a life on.

Actually, as a smoker who is trying to quit, and only been without (this time) for a few months, I am not trying to sell some anti-smoking line either. A person is free to make their own choices...that is where you and I agree.

But the argument "cigarette companies are responsible for peoples addictions to nicotine because they made the cigarettes" actually is true, and doesn't truthfully serve to support your final premise. Cigarette companies did not create the addictive tendency in people, but they did everything they could to exploit it. That's just the nature of business...especially pharmaceutical business (legal and otherwise).

My two cents...

Nicely nicely said juantoo3 and let's not even start on passive smoking and how that effects children, people in general.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Alex P

The source of evil is your god

When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. JAMES 1 ;13

[17th Angel]

Well... You weren't looking for opinions so I am going through it step by step....

I say man is source of evil(and good) you say no... So I must be wrong lol..... Then if it is not man, and we are obviously wanting this to go in a christian frame of mind (even though it isn't in that forum) Then it's god right? He created -everything-..... every,thing....

[Dream]

Alex said to Mee "The source of evil is your God"

Mee in response quoted New World Translation "When under trial, let no one say: 'I am being tried by God.' For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone."

As in Mathematics there are things we cannot directly perceive, but we can see their 'Asymptotes', which are the mysteries. Actually, the mystery is what is beyond the asymptotes, but we cannot perceive it directly. What James (the person quoted from) did was to stop people from thinking that the asymptotes were the explanation, which they can never be. The analogies about God are simply the outlines of our limited perception.

Mee's quote from James at first may seem in contest with what Alex said, however it underlines a basic misunderstanding that James was clearing up! James was breaking down the mysteries (the asymptotes of knowledge) and explaining as plainly as possible, only because it became necessary. Don't get me wrong, God cannot be discussed at all without analogies. James was revealing the practical source of the analogies of the permanence of God, but only because people were thinking they had understood God, which was impractical and unhealthy! People were getting hung up on the analogy of God's omniscience, saying "God must be tempting me!!!" In reality, no one was able to understand or explain God; so James was permitted to explain the reasons why certain analogies were made about God!

James was pointing out that omniscience was merely an analogy, saying 'They're just asymptotes, people!' Similarly, Alex is not trying to be cross but is simply emphasizing that the evil and the good, since they are part of creation, both simply are. This clearly does not fit into a strict, literal understanding of James analogous statements about God & light. Clearly God is as pure light, yet evil exists in creation. How could we exist if God is not good? God is omniscient, yet we are responsible for our actions? This cannot be explained! Sometimes you break with the mystery for the sake of practicality, so you don't get hung up on absolutist statements. The asymptote does not define the curve.

II Kings 18:4 ...And he broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the people of Israel had burned incense to it; it was called Nehushtan. (Nehushtan means thing of brass)