What Is Truth?The Great Historical Question Answered.

[presser_kun]

Originally Posted by Bandit

good for you then. that still is not proof that the written quotes are not original.
you make it sound like they had to have computers & zerox mahines 2000 years ago to be valid quotes.

Well, we also argue over the works of Shakespeare, classical works of antiquity, and even the meaning of the U.S. constitution (witness the furor over U.S. Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito). Modern technology isn't what is needed to prove a quote is direct.

A reliable source is.

Please don't blow up at this. I'm not saying the Christian scriptures aren't reliable. Here's what I mean:

I was taught as a boy that the Bible is the word of God.

In college, I found out that it was written by men.

Later I learned that wise people in the nineteenth century, people who studied the scriptures all their life, began to examine the sources of the scriptures we have.

They found out that the original texts of the New Testament are no longer extant. The copies we have are decades, sometimes centuries removed from the events they report.

Further, they discovered that the Christian scriptures were not written at the time the events transpired. Followers of Jesus who walked with him in the flesh began to die, and others asked them to write down their memories so that they could be preserved.

This is not sacrilige, Bandit. Rather, I think it is a wonderful thing to know that, in spite of these all-too-human obstacles and hinderances, God's truth in Jesus shines through to us today.

Is it wrong to think this way?

peace,

press

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by presser_kun

Hi, Bandit. I've seen your posts around, and now I'm glad to dialog directly with you.

First, I agree with you. We cannot know that the statements the New Testament attributes to Jesus are not direct quotes.

But neither can we know that they are.

The point wil is making, I think (sorry, wil, if I'm putting words into your mouth) is that we have no proof that the words of Jesus as reported by the N.T. are direct quotes.

One may have faith that they are, of course. But to say that wil's view is extreme isn't correct. Many mainline theologians and bible scholars hold wil's view.

Are you saying that any view that differs from yours is extreme? That seems rather extreme in and of itself to me.

Sound off on these thoughts, Bandit. Let me know what you think is wrong with them. I'm sure I'll learn from what you have to say.

peace,

press

i dont see anything wrong with them & i do not detect a agenda to discredit the scriptures or one to force the scriptures on others, as certain groups do.

those are beliefs & choices you have to make for yourself on what is true & if the bible is true.

i dont see 'many' mainline, what i see are a few & they are also known as 'modern scholars' mystics, gnostics & the like. i dont hear many Christians saying the bible is not true.

i believe the bible is true & holds truth. Faith is real and it can be tested. The scriptures can also be tested. Christians are one of the few who learn to walk by faith & walk in the spirit & stand on the scriptures as a foundation & Godly principals for all aspects of life.
(i am sure you already know this, but maybe do not understand how someone can do that. not sure)

What i see is, people create dogma & translations that contradict & some use the scriptures for power, but the bible itself does not do that. i see it is all in the way we choose to view it & put it together for ourselves. i can't change what copiests & editors did or what traditional doctrines say. When i look at the volume of the book I come up with about .0000000001% error due to translation & copying or an attempt to persuade some into a particular doctrine.
while others tend to view the whole thing as error, finding fault.
the nature of and existance of Q itself is hypothetical IMO.

so, we can spend all our time only seeing it from a historic, scholarly, or fairy tale view, OR search for what God wants us to know. I think what he wants us to know is that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus is true & that the purpose of Jesus was to reveal, manifest & show the love of God in the flesh so that we would have someone to believe & show us how to get to know God.

as far as direct quotes from Jesus, i believe they are. i view the disciples as students of Jesus getting a college degree (in a sense & for that time period) and you do not spend three & a half years with a professor giving lectures & not come away with remembering what he was saying & trying to teach. You have to also remember, these guys were FILLED with Holy Ghost & with power after the ascension, & when we get that far with God, we start to see things a bit different, learning how to walk by faith.

because i dont believe something is true, i dont spend my life trying to convince others that what they believe to be true, is not true. there are certain individuals who have this as a primary objective.
IOW- trying to convince someone to eat or not to eat spinach because they like or dont like spinach, is an agenda.

i hope that is fair & what do you think about that?

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by presser_kun

Wow. You've really made me think, Bandit.

There are many truths. Some are inconsequential, as in "I just ate an olive." Some are more significant, as in "Mary wants to find a place to live." Some matter a great deal, and some are ultimate.

I don't give examples of these last two categories because it seems to me that the more important a truth is to us humans, the more likely we are to question flat statements of fact.

Nobody wants to dispute "I just ate an olive" because it's a truth that really doesn't matter. Perhaps a situation could be constructed in which the truth of such a statement mattered a great deal, but you see my point, I hope.

But say, "This is the only way to find happiness (or God)," and everybody will have an opinion.

Why?

Because it matters a great deal. Some would say that nothing matters more.

So we argue. Some say that their way is the only way. Others go to war over differing beliefs about the ultimate truths.

Aliens from a distant planet might think many things about us humans, but one thing I think they'll realize is that we care deeply about the truth. Every group, culture, and civilization has members of the tribe that dedicate themselves to discovering Truth (I'm using capital "T" now to represent the ultimate things we wonder about).

So now. Your original question to me was,



I'm uncertain about what that might be.

I'm searching. I care deeply about what's wrong and right, but the longer I live, the less I know for certain.

Over the past three years I've been through a crisis of faith. I grew up and lived for years as a Christian fundamentalist. I now know that God speaks to others, so I'm attempting to learn from others about God.

Isn't it marvelous that God is so much bigger than any one group's interpretation of him?

My truth, I guess, is this: If there is a God (I think there is) and if God is personal (I'm not entirely convinced of this) then I think he wants us to treat each other with respect.

Simple, no? But aren't the great truths always simple?

Hope this rambling makes sense.

peace,

press

i am not sure what to say about all of that, except for that we are pretty much in agreement. dont think you are the only one who believes there are more questions than answers & that is very wise.
i have never waivered in my faith for Jesus & the Bible, but somehow i can relate & feel compassion for those who do.

i think you may be ahead of me on some of these things.
i dont have all the answers either presser_kun, but i am pretty impressed with your genuine spirit & the love that you display. that says a lot to me.

yes i agree that God is so much bigger than we realize or can totally comprehend. when i try to picture God on my level (which i believe He does transcend this way in spirit, because of the man Jesus making intercession) i picture one of his eyeballs being as big as the milky way. i find all this love & grace & mercy & how someone who is that big, who has a finger the size of the big dipper, could care about a speck like me & be so gentle at the same time, is pretty amazing.

I believe Jesus is the only way & i just think others do not realize it, but that does not mean Jesus is not reaching out to everyone, because i believe God will transcend in many different ways, through Jesus.
people just dont understand how that can be true or possible.
if someone else wants to believe i am wrong, well, that is totally their choice, but that does not make what i just said not true.

can you prove to someone that it is true, you just ate an olive? or would not the person have to be there & SEE you eat it. some people are that way & will dispute anything.

i think God wants us to treat others with respect also! & i think that is a very deep but simple truth.

What else do you think is Truth?

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by presser_kun

Well, we also argue over the works of Shakespeare, classical works of antiquity, and even the meaning of the U.S. constitution (witness the furor over U.S. Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito). Modern technology isn't what is needed to prove a quote is direct.

A reliable source is.

Please don't blow up at this. I'm not saying the Christian scriptures aren't reliable. Here's what I mean:

I was taught as a boy that the Bible is the word of God.

In college, I found out that it was written by men.

Later I learned that wise people in the nineteenth century, people who studied the scriptures all their life, began to examine the sources of the scriptures we have.

They found out that the original texts of the New Testament are no longer extant. The copies we have are decades, sometimes centuries removed from the events they report.

Further, they discovered that the Christian scriptures were not written at the time the events transpired. Followers of Jesus who walked with him in the flesh began to die, and others asked them to write down their memories so that they could be preserved.

This is not sacrilige, Bandit. Rather, I think it is a wonderful thing to know that, in spite of these all-too-human obstacles and hinderances, God's truth in Jesus shines through to us today.

Is it wrong to think this way?

peace,

press

i dont think it wrong to think that way at all. i am very aware of the history of the bible & how it got to us. i still think it all happened the way it did with a purpose higher than us & God wanted it to come to us this way. i dont know why & maybe never will know why.

i take a more positive approach because i want to know what the scriptures are trying to say to me in spirit as well as how i should be in the flesh to make me a better person. i dont just sit there & pick pick pick it apart because i have nothing better to do.
what i mean is, i have a very thankful heart for it because i would feel very lost without it.

i would also consider that if it had been left in the hands of some others, we would have never known anything about Jesus, the apostles or prophets. i would not say extant, because i consider the era things transpired & people question history books too.
i would not say that about Pauls letters either.

none of it was written when things transpired but if Jesus went back to God after calvary, it was not that long afterward people began writing about it. nothing was well recorded in those times because that is just how the media was. no one knew of a birth certificate or SS #. good grief, it used to take two weeks just to get a letter to someone & it was not that long ago.

so, i think you are on track with things & i hope i am being a good listener today because you sure are talking my ear off & making me think but it is cool, because something happened that brought me back home today & maybe that was so that we could take a few minutes out of life & try to relate.

[wil]

as far as direct quotes from Jesus, i believe they are. i view the disciples as students of Jesus getting a college degree (in a sense & for that time period) and you do not spend three & a half years with a professor giving lectures & not come away with remembering what he was saying & trying to teach.You have to also remember, these guys were FILLED with Holy Ghost & with power after the ascension, & when we get that far with God, we start to see things a bit different, learning how to walk by faith

You know that really makes me think. Yes it lends some validity for remembering it and having someone transcribe it for you 20-40 years after it occurred.... But more than that I would think the accounts would be soooo much longer. I look at the volumes that have been put out by those without that connection to Jesus and the events, and the fact that they must have been story tellers (telling the story) for all that time, you'd think there would be so much more to say. (not at all saying what was said wasn't enough)

when i try to picture God ... i picture one of his eyeballs being as big as the milky way....how someone who is that big, who has a finger the size of the big dipper....What else do you think is Truth?

speaking of speaking volumes

The point wil is making, I think (sorry, wil, if I'm putting words into your mouth) is that we have no proof that the words of Jesus as reported by the N.T. are direct quotes.

You've done quite well rewording my thought to make it understandable. As you discussed about growing up with the finger of God having written the bible...and then gone through some independent study learning more... it reminds me of the rude awakening my preacher had hearing from a Jesuit Priest in a masters level theology class, "You don't really think the garden of eden happenned do you? You don't realize Genesis is allegory?" He said many in the class needed smelling salts...but it was just the lesson they needed in order to finish the rest of the courses...

Tis a shame they don't teach 'truth' in Sunday school, or even church, thinking the masses aren't ready for it...only those that are serious students are prepared to handle it. I for one think the world would be better if all the cards were laid face up on the table instead of so close to the vest...I think christianity has lost more people due to not giving us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....

Let google copy the books from the vatican library!

namaste,

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by wil

You know that really makes me think. Yes it lends some validity for remembering it and having someone transcribe it for you 20-40 years after it occurred.... But more than that I would think the accounts would be soooo much longer. I look at the volumes that have been put out by those without that connection to Jesus and the events, and the fact that they must have been story tellers (telling the story) for all that time, you'd think there would be so much more to say. (not at all saying what was said wasn't enough) speaking of speaking volumes You've done quite well rewording my thought to make it understandable. As you discussed about growing up with the finger of God having written the bible...and then gone through some independent study learning more... it reminds me of the rude awakening my preacher had hearing from a Jesuit Priest in a masters level theology class, "You don't really think the garden of eden happenned do you? You don't realize Genesis is allegory?" He said many in the class needed smelling salts...but it was just the lesson they needed in order to finish the rest of the courses...

Tis a shame they don't teach 'truth' in Sunday school, or even church, thinking the masses aren't ready for it...only those that are serious students are prepared to handle it. I for one think the world would be better if all the cards were laid face up on the table instead of so close to the vest...I think christianity has lost more people due to not giving us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....

Let google copy the books from the vatican library!

namaste,

it sounds like you have a lot of anger & anomosity which i can relate to to an extent, but i dont see the point in letting it eat at you.
all i have seen since the first day you joined here is negative post after negative post against the bible & Christianity- not a good way to find whatever it is you are looking for.

is someone forcing you to do something you dont want to do? or do you want to force others to do & believe what you want them to believe?

i dont trust the vatican & never will, but do you see me constantly criticising them & other religions that i do not agree with on a regular basis?

i think you do have some issues Wil, with the bible & Christianity & so do I, but i put it all behind me.
i hope you will take this as constructive & do the same. You cannot change the past & if you dont like something then dont dwell on it & move on & you will be happier for doing so.
be happy.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Bandit

it sounds like you have a lot of anger & anomosity which i can relate to to an extent, but i dont see the point in letting it eat at you.
all i have seen since the first day you joined here is negative post after negative post against the bible & Christianity- not a good way to find whatever it is you are looking for.

is someone forcing you to do something you dont want to do? or do you want to force others to do & believe what you want them to believe?

i dont trust the vatican & never will, but do you see me constantly criticising them & other religions that i do not agree with on a regular basis?

i think you do have some issues Wil, with the bible & Christianity & so do I, but i put it all behind me.
i hope you will take this as constructive & do the same. You cannot change the past & if you dont like something then dont dwell on it & move on & you will be happier for doing so.
be happy.

I obviously have either issues hidden to me, or am absolutely terrible at putting my thoughts in words. I am not negative against the bible, I have a number of them around the house, in my car and at work, to be able to use whenever I find the time or need to read or look up something. I have parrallel bibles so I don't have to flip back and forth on pages... I consider myself a christian, ie learning to follow the teachings of Jesus. I continually take classes to learn more about theology, the bible, and its teachings and enjoy it immensely. I don't go to church every Sunday because I'm told to, or because I'll go to hell if I don't, I go because I want to, I love it, and wouldn't miss it.

I'm sorry you see my comments as negative. I am nothing but interested in finding out 'What is the Truth?' and find the Nag Hamadi texts, Dead Sea Scrolls, the Jefferson gospels, Paramahansa Yogananda, Tich Nat Hanh, Eckardt Tolle, the vedas, the gita and so much more....not only as enlightening and illuminating as the bible, but also deepening my respect for the books contained in it. And the fact that the writers, translations, interpretations and cannonizations all had influencing biases and power issues, not only strenghthens my understanding of what I am reading but increases the usefulness of same in my life.

Don't worry bandit, I have no issues with what you say about me, only have issues with myself that I may be missinterpretted so easily.

rule #2 don Miguel Ruiz...don't take anything personally.

namaste,

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by wil

I obviously have either issues hidden to me, or am absolutely terrible at putting my thoughts in words. I am not negative against the bible, I have a number of them around the house, in my car and at work, to be able to use whenever I find the time or need to read or look up something. I have parrallel bibles so I don't have to flip back and forth on pages... I consider myself a christian, ie learning to follow the teachings of Jesus. I continually take classes to learn more about theology, the bible, and its teachings and enjoy it immensely. I don't go to church every Sunday because I'm told to, or because I'll go to hell if I don't, I go because I want to, I love it, and wouldn't miss it.

I'm sorry you see my comments as negative. I am nothing but interested in finding out 'What is the Truth?' and find the Nag Hamadi texts, Dead Sea Scrolls, the Jefferson gospels, Paramahansa Yogananda, Tich Nat Hanh, Eckardt Tolle, the vedas, the gita and so much more....not only as enlightening and illuminating as the bible, but also deepening my respect for the books contained in it. And the fact that the writers, translations, interpretations and cannonizations all had influencing biases and power issues, not only strenghthens my understanding of what I am reading but increases the usefulness of same in my life.

Don't worry bandit, I have no issues with what you say about me, only have issues with myself that I may be missinterpretted so easily.

rule #2 don Miguel Ruiz...don't take anything personally.

namaste,

i believe you then & i love you like a brother & if it took me to say what i said to get you to see what i am trying to say, then i am glad. i thought in other places you were not claiming Jesus & the Bible & making a mockery of it or so i should say that is the how the approach keeps coming off with a lot of sarcasm. (i think)

i dont judge people to heaven or hell & go around trying 'save' people.
but if see someone standing on a cliff, i am going to say step back away from there so you dont fall. others may say nothing because they do not care & others may push you off.
and if you do fall, i am going to send a rope down to you to get you back to safety...even if you hate me for it.
i agree with almost everything you say in this post because i have done the same studies & have come to the same conclusions. so i suppose you can just search for truth forever, but at some point it does not hurt to lay some foundation work in the process, which i think you are trying to do.

what i think we should agree on is that MEN & RELIGION cause harm, but the bible itself does not bring harm, & Jesus does not bring harm, when truly & objectively study with a sincere & honest heart w/o all the preconceived dogma attached.
can we at least agree on that?

can we also agree that a lot of things we read are simply others opinions as far as the scholarly approach? & that appraoch is different than seeking truth between the lines of the scriptures?
the more you saturate yourself with the scriptures, one day you will see, it is very much so alive & i cant explain that, but they are alive.

i am also wondering if the history of Christianity & Rome brings you pain the same way it does for me? i have spent years struggling with that & years being shunned from people in denominations- but when i look at what really happened in the bible, before men starting abusing it, i find that peace & joy & hope, & i pray that you are finding that also.
now, i am being very sincere in my post today, with no sarcasm & i think that is needed at times to make real connections. i think you are doing things the right way & have the right approach about going to church also I really hope there is a good one in your area for you to fellowship with because we all need that.

i try to be a good listener Wil, & i can feel things that others feel.
at any rate, i am out of here for the weekend I will be holding you up in prayer as a special prayer this weekend because we all need to pray for each other.

Jesus said, I am the way the truth and the life & then in another place he asked, "What is truth?" & he left that up to you to decide. so remember that as you seek for truth.
dont believe me because i say so, test the scriptures & your own faith for yourself...
and what if, Jesus was telling the truth.

have a nice weekend & stay warm.
Peace & love in Christ

[Quahom1]

What is truth...

Truth is that we live, and then we die. It is the absolute truth.

Hope is that Jesus can by our accepting His promise, make us live again.

Faith is that Jesus will make us live again.

Love, is what we're supposed to do to each other in the mean time.

Finally, the "truth" is by Hope, Faith, and Love, we positively affect those around us, we make a difference, and we come to peace within ourselves. We live the good life, and fight the good fight. We do what is right, not scream about what our rights are. We give until it hurts, not take until they bleed. We concern ourselves with what we will leave behind, not what we can't take with us.

In math, three positives can not make a negative sum, nor a negative factor. That is the absolute truth.

Positive energy can not cause negative results.

Christianity is truth, because Jesus taught the way of truth. One can never go wrong by sticking to the rules of truth. Becuase by sticking to the rules of truth, people begin to trust. Trust begins hope, which begins faith, which generates love, which creates trust...nice cycle
v/r

Q

[presser_kun]

Hi, Bandit.

It took me a few days to get around to reading your thoughts, and now I'm ready to respond.

Originally Posted by Bandit

so, we can spend all our time only seeing it from a historic, scholarly, or fairy tale view, OR search for what God wants us to know.

I think God wants us to know the truth (no captital "t") about how the Bible we have today came to be. Learning about its origins can help us better understand what it says to us.

Here's an old illustration from a hermenutics class I took once. It's long, but it has a good point to make. I hope you'll take the time to read it.

While digging in the ruins of ancient Chicago in 3000 C.E., three Chinese anthropologists come upon a sealed time capsule. They take it into a lab and break the seal in a near vacuum environment to prevent destruction of the contents.

Among the artifacts is a newspaper with the headline, "Dewey Defeats Truman." Carefully turning the pages of the paper with sterilized tongs, the anthropologists look for information.

On the editorial page there is a cartoon drawing of an elephant hitting a donkey on the head with a baseball bat.

"Oh, look," says the first anthropologist. "This tells us something of the ancient American culture. They enjoyed entertainments involving animals that were forced to hurt each other. No wonder their civilization wasn't sustainable. They were so primitive!"

"No, you don't know your history," says the second anthropologist. "Look at the date of the paper. In the mid-20th century there was a team sport called baseball that was quite popular. Each team was represented by an animal mascot. This cartoon is an allegory. It means that the Elephants beat the Donkeys in a baseball game."

"Neither one of you truly know your history," said the third anthropologist. "In 20th century America the two great political parties of the day were also represented by animal mascots: elephant for republicans, donkey for democrats. The date of the paper is early November in an election year. The cartoon appears on the editorial page, which was devoted to politics. This is a humorous look at how badly the democrats were beaten in the presidential election that year.

"Of course," said the third anthropologist, the cartoon and the headline were wrong. It was the democrats who won that election."

The point is that knowing the historical context matters.

How can we know what God is saying to us if we don't understand the life and times of the people who wrote the Bible?

I guess what I'm saying is that looking into the beginnings and development of scripture is one of the holiest things we can do - at least it is for me.

I have trouble believing that God wants me to be kept in the dark, like a superstitious caveman dazzled by the words of the shaman/priest who holds the secret knowledge. This is what I think is happening when well-meaning Christians tell me to "just believe" and not to listen to those who want to question the Bible.

trying to convince someone to eat or not to eat spinach because they like or dont like spinach, is an agenda.

Well, if you thought someone was in danger of driving off a cliff, you'd try to keep her from it, right? Would the driver, thinking nothing was wrong, say you had an agenda?

hmmm.....

[presser_kun]

Originally Posted by Bandit

i take a more positive approach because i want to know what the scriptures are trying to say to me in spirit as well as how i should be in the flesh to make me a better person.

More of us should take this approach.

something happened that brought me back home today & maybe that was so that we could take a few minutes out of life & try to relate.

I like that, Bandit. Trying to relate is, possibly, one of the most god-like, Christ-like things we can do.

peace,

press

[presser_kun]

Originally Posted by wil

...reminds me of the rude awakening my preacher had hearing from a Jesuit Priest in a masters level theology class, "You don't really think the garden of eden happenned do you? You don't realize Genesis is allegory?" He said many in the class needed smelling salts...but it was just the lesson they needed in order to finish the rest of the courses...

*laughs* I went through a very tumultuous time when I learned of such things. Quite upsetting, really, and yet I grew from the experience.

Tis a shame they don't teach 'truth' in Sunday school, or even church, thinking the masses aren't ready for it...only those that are serious students are prepared to handle it. I for one think the world would be better if all the cards were laid face up on the table instead of so close to the vest...I think christianity has lost more people due to not giving us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....

Let google copy the books from the vatican library!

I'm in hearty agreement with both sentiments!

peace,

press

[Curios Mike]

presser_kun wrote

then I think he wants us to treat each other with respect.

That is a truth even Jesus preached: Matt 22:35-40
35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
NKJV

These two statements wether direct or pariphrased or Written by someone who dont even know Christ; are the basis of All truth on how to treat your fellow man.

OK what is truth.... what goes up must come down, if you crash your car in a wall, inertia will carry your body the rest of the way.... How many great scientist did it take to find these truth.... Should science even been used to figer out something so simple. Those are cominsensical Truths. As well as the 2 great comandments. What other truths do we need? DO you need to know if God exists??? What do you believe? What is faith? Is it the Truth, that you do not believe in a God. Or Do u need to feel the nails to believe Jesus existed? Was Jesus a false prophet claiming to be something he wasnt? Or is he actually the son of God? What if Shakespear wrote most of the Bible?

But now on a slightly more serious note , what if Gods word is not nessicarily what is written a book, or books, but rather what he is writing in your life, or heart? If you can valify this...... you can valify God in your life!

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by presser_kun

More of us should take this approach.



I like that, Bandit. Trying to relate is, possibly, one of the most god-like, Christ-like things we can do.

peace,

press

hi presser_kun
i am going out of town for the holiday & will get back to this in a week or so. i think we relate very well & looking forward to it.

[presser_kun]

Originally Posted by Curios Mike

What other truths do we need? DO you need to know if God exists??? What do you believe? What is faith? Is it the Truth, that you do not believe in a God. Or Do u need to feel the nails to believe Jesus existed? Was Jesus a false prophet claiming to be something he wasnt? Or is he actually the son of God? What if Shakespear wrote most of the Bible?

But now on a slightly more serious note , what if Gods word is not nessicarily what is written a book, or books, but rather what he is writing in your life, or heart? If you can valify this...... you can valify God in your life!

I'm having trouble understanding your point. Can you clarify what you mean?

peace,

press