What is your view of "sin"

[Gatekeeper]

I believe that sin is a missing of the mark - the mark is that which God has put in place to bring us in harmony with Him, and each other. when we sin, or rather miss the mark, the harmony shifts to disharmony, and we, or others suffer for it. This is why God hates sin; He wants us to be happy, and joyful, and to appreciate the union, and relashionship created when we meet the mark He has set for us.

I'm of the mind that we are not punished for our sins, but by them - this implies that the natural consequence of sin is disharmony with God, and our fellow man. Sometimes we sin intentionally, but the result is the same if we sin unintentionally - despite what some might think. God is a loving God, and a merciful God, and we have the opportunity to be reconciled back to him though Christ our Lord. It is the Spirit that gives life; the wages of sin are death. Death here is a spiritual death - The state of being a slave to sin, as oppossed to the freedom we have in Christ, and through His spirit.

Christ died so we might be free from our sins; He died so we might have life, and have life in abundance. This comes by grace, and by the Spirit, and by seeking first the kingdom, which is a life connected to God, and in harmony with our fellow man. Our sins prevent us from attaining the kingdom, and they cause us, and others to suffer. To live in the darkness of mind where hate, and bitterness, and anger, and jealousy, and envy, and pride, and lust, and resentment keeps us from realizing the kingdom at hand. Anything that seperates us from God, and causes contention, or disharmony with our neighbors is a sin, or a missing of the mark. [imo]

Sin is not nescessarily something to fear, as we are to learn from our mistakes. Sin is more of a tool, as when we realize the effects thereof, we are better able to resist, and are better able to see what it takes to hit the mark God has set for us. Most of us wish to be happy, don't we? This is the pupose of sin, so we might realize the effects, and change our behavior - repentance. [Aim for the heart - Love] Seek first the kingdom, which is living in harmony with God, and our fellow man.

Love

James

[Snoopy]

I don't recognise the notion of sin as such.

Er, that's it.

s.

[Gatekeeper]

Do you not recognize sin at all, or are you just disagreeing with my assesment of what sin is? I'd love to hear your thoughts, as I believe sin is very real. Perhaps sin should be called something else in your mind, or is life a free for all, and w/o consequence? I simply believe in natural consequences for our actions. [Karma - reaping what we sow, etc.]

~~To me it's all just common sense, a broken rule a consequence~~

[Snoopy]

Hey James stop editing when I'm concocting a thought!

s.

(need coffee first................................)

[wil]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hey James stop editing when I'm concocting a thought!

s.

(need coffee first................................)

Concocting a thought?

I believe you've hit the target. I hear various arguments on the missed the mark issue, whether it applied to Koine or not, handy though I say.

Miss making it to mass a sin? Don't think anyone ever intended that one.

Headed for hell...whatta scare tactic. Used quite well. Guilt.

I think it is a lot like gravity, a universal physical law that we'll some day understand. I think the bible writers and interpreters had their bias to fulfill to explain it as they did.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by wil

Concocting a thought?

I believe you've hit the target. I hear various arguments on the missed the mark issue, whether it applied to Koine or not, handy though I say.

Miss making it to mass a sin? Don't think anyone ever intended that one.

Headed for hell...whatta scare tactic. Used quite well. Guilt.

I think it is a lot like gravity, a universal physical law that we'll some day understand. I think the bible writers and interpreters had their bias to fulfill to explain it as they did.

What is hell, anyway - if not the feeling of seperation, and disharmony we create by our actions, and our mindsets? Hell was never meant to be a literal place of torment, only a life with spurts of suffering, due to our unwillingness to unite, and embrace our differences.

Like you, I think sin is a lot like gravity, only I veiw the law of love to be at its core. One law to rule them all, so to speak ....

James

[Snoopy]

OK James, here’s your OP refracted through another perspective (to shine a light on common ground)…(I’ve tried wherever I feel able to maintain your words James)

I believe that to err is a missing of the mark - a mark by which the universe demonstrates our harmony with the universe (including therefore, each other). When we err, or rather miss the mark, the harmony shifts to disharmony, and we/others suffer for it. This shows that the natural consequence of our errors is disharmony with the universe, and hence our fellow man.

To live in the darkness of mind where hate, and bitterness, and anger, and jealousy, and envy, and pride, and lust, and resentment keeps us from realizing the harmony at hand. When we view ourselves as separate from the rest of the universe it is a missing of the mark.

Errors are not necessarily something to fear, as we can learn from our mistakes. Wrong action is more of a tool, as when we realize the effects thereof, we are better able to resist, and are better able to see what it takes to hit the mark. Most of us wish to be happy, don't we? This is the purpose of the mark, so we might realize the effects, and change our behavior. [Aim for the heart - Love] Live in harmony with the universe, which includes our fellow man.

s.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Do you not recognize sin at all, or are you just disagreeing with my assesment of what sin is?

No I’m not disagreeing with your assessment of what sin is, it’s just that I do not recognise it as being a real “thing” out there, as it were.

I'd love to hear your thoughts, as I believe sin is very real.

It is very real, for you and many others, but not for me (and many others!).

Perhaps sin should be called something else in your mind

Well it’s something I don’t “believe in” so should I give it another name? Perhaps you are referring to something that I would describe in other ways; in the way I took your OP and remoulded it perhaps? If you don’t believe in Shiva, do you give it another name or simply say you don’t believe in Shiva?

or is life a free for all, and w/o consequence?

Certainly not (of course not!)

I simply believe in natural consequences for our actions.

I agree.

~~To me it's all just common sense, a broken rule a consequence~~

Yes, I think so too.

I took “God” out of your OP because my understanding of the term is not the same as yours, clearly. I do not reify the concept (one for Tao ). God can mean the universal law of cause and effect, perhaps, for instance. (bugger, I’ve just noticed wil got that one in first).

s.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by wil

Concocting a thought?

You have a problem with that?

Koine

I think it is a lot like gravity, a universal physical law that we'll some day understand.

Don't hold your breath It must make gravity look like junior school stuff.

s.

[wil]

Namaste Snoopy

Originally Posted by Snoopy

You have a problem with that?

Um er yeah, maybe it is just me. I can see concocting a post, gathering thoughts, compiling thoughts, but I don't concoctem, they come...could be semantics.

Originally Posted by snoop

Don't hold your breath It must make gravity look like junior school stuff.

A-amen, A-amen, A-A-amen, amen, amen. And that's the truth, and so it is.

taught by the masters, ignored by the masses.

the new math. coming to a consciousness near you.

[Gatekeeper]

Snoopy, thank you for puting my words in your perspective; it comes off as being a little more forgiving towards those who might not believe in a deity. You might be surprised, but I think I view deity very similar to how you view the universe.

Cause and effect, that's pretty much what I was getting at, but I wanted to demonstrate the effects our 'errors' have on our relations with each other, and how they harm us inwardly. I think it all boils down to respect, and value, and acceptence. I view the human race to be one big family. A multi cultured, and diverse family. If we can ever view one another with the respect we give to our closest friends, and accept others for who they are, and value our differences, the world would be a much better place - I call it Gods kingdom. You would obviously use different terms, but it would still be the same place ...

James

[wil]

oops Koine...it is my understanding that was the greek spoke in the middle east during Jesus time. there are disagreements about the exact word and definition and while today in Greek it means missing the mark, in Koine it didn't.

Pardon my incomplete memory and not knowing how to ascertain what I had read previously. I personally like the definition. I had originally heard it meant missing the bulls eye even, powerful thought. But then learned the whole scenario didn't quite fit reality. But H, E double hockey sticks sure won't let that get in the way!

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Snoopy Um er yeah, maybe it is just me. I can see concocting a post, gathering thoughts, compiling thoughts, but I don't concoctem, they come...could be semantics.

I told you I needed a coffee!

A-amen, A-amen, A-A-amen, amen, amen. And that's the truth, and so it is.

taught by the masters, ignored by the masses.

Stop it, you're making me blush.

s.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Snoopy, thank you for puting my words in your perspective;

I was a bit worried you might not like me re-doing your post but I just thought it might be a way to see where the similarities are.

You might be surprised, but I think I view deity very similar to how you view the universe.

Deity, universe, ...it's probably all just inadequate words at the end of the day.

Cause and effect, that's pretty much what I was getting at, but I wanted to demonstrate the effects our 'errors' have on our relations with each other, and how they harm us inwardly. I think it all boils down to respect, and value, and acceptence. I view the human race to be one big family. A multi cultured, and diverse family. If we can ever view one another with the respect we give to our closest friends, and accept others for who they are, and value our differences, the world would be a much better place - I call it Gods kingdom. You would obviously use different terms, but it would still be the same place ...

James

Call it what you like James, sounds like a great place to me.

s.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

I told you I needed a coffee!

Complete with warped spoon: