What made god? - Page 2

17th Angel · 01-24-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InLove

Maybe you just answered your own question, Angel.

InPeace,
InLove

Points to the post just above yours.

Postmaster · 01-24-2007, 01:45 PM

Yeah but the reality of God gets greater every time it mutates, it evolves not devolves. Just as with most understanding about things like carriages to cars.

17th Angel · 01-24-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Yeah but the reality of God gets greater every time it mutates, it evolves not devolve.

Eh? The way I meant it to sound is, that the something is us... We are the something... So we are our own gods... ;/ Meaning we made god... Eh, nm.

InLove · 01-24-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Yeah but the reality of God gets greater every time it mutates, it evolves not devolves.

I submit that the reality of God is constant. Whatever appears to evolve has always been. We may see it as some sort of change, but I think that is because our vision is limited.

InPeace,
InLove

Zagreus · 01-24-2007, 01:49 PM

Okay, scratch my latest yarn of a novella reply.

One of the wisest, and also most compassionate, people I've ever known, put it to me like this:

He said, as he made an expansion-contraction motion with his hands, "there are some people who believe that the universe just breathes."

And this is what I believe.

We know that there was a Big Bang, immediately preceded by a singularity. Eventually, our Kosmos will reach an overall state of equilibrium, and then we will experience the Big Crunch. The final outcome of this: another singularity.

Now rest. Lather, rinse, repeat.

But Siriusly ... HOW OLD did you say God was? Immortal, was it? Eternal?

INFINITE

Ahh, without beginning or end. I breathe, I grow old, I die. I may or may not be reborn, but regardless, even the cycle of birth, death & rebirth is NOT an eternal cycle. Eventually, this too will end. This is basic cosmology.

But if GOD has no beginning, or end, then that means that there NEVER WAS a "first" cycle. There is no "last" cycle.

Please don't ask, 'What's the point?' Or if you do, then as Thich Nhat Hanh says, "Don't just do something. SIT THERE."

What was the question again?

~Zag

EDIT: Now add, what Postmaster said above.

wil · 01-24-2007, 04:27 PM

Namaste 17th.

I think the issue is the definition of G-d.

I don't think 'He' exists either.

I don't thnk 'He' will ever be dropping down and giving you a bag of potato chips.

I do think G-d always existed.

I do think G-d is all there is.

So to me you are asking what made all that is.

I say nothing. Nothing made G-d.

All there is always existed.

To me, the issue is getting hung up on the Sunday school version of the anthropomorphic G-d throwing lightning bolts and locusts and handing out bags of potato chips. If one stays in that role the only answer one has is, you gotta have faith...its in the book...it is you disbelief that is a problem...

But we can transcend that and realize that G-d can only do for us what G-d can do through us...and in that find that every bag of potato chip we've ever been given, ever purchased, or ever ate...

was provided by G-d!

Quahom1 · 01-24-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste 17th.

I think the issue is the definition of G-d.

I don't think 'He' exists either.

I don't thnk 'He' will ever be dropping down and giving you a bag of potato chips.

I do think G-d always existed.

I do think G-d is all there is.

So to me you are asking what made all that is.

I say nothing. Nothing made G-d.

All there is always existed.

To me, the issue is getting hung up on the Sunday school version of the anthropomorphic G-d throwing lightning bolts and locusts and handing out bags of potato chips. If one stays in that role the only answer one has is, you gotta have faith...its in the book...it is you disbelief that is a problem...

But we can transcend that and realize that G-d can only do for us what G-d can do through us...and in that find that every bag of potato chip we've ever been given, ever purchased, or ever ate...

was provided by G-d!

Interesting. Yet the Bible cautions us to take care when a stranger knocks at the the door, we never know when we might be entertaining angels...(they could even have a bag of chips).

17th Angel · 01-24-2007, 04:34 PM

bag of chips anyone?

Zagreus · 01-24-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Interesting. Yet the Bible cautions us to take care when a stranger knocks at the the door, we never know when we might be entertaining angels...(they could even have a bag of chips).

This quote, incidentally, is Sean Penn's saving grace in a sermon he preaches in `We're No Angels,' also starring Robert DeNiro. Quite a funny movie, featuring these two as escaped convicts, posing as priests. Most likely based on the much earlier film of the same title, featuring Humphrey Bogart and Peter Ustinov, who similarly deceive a family of shopkeepers, as I recall.

In both instances, the convicts redeem themselves in various ways. Oh! And Demi Moore is in the newer version, in one of her early roles. Good flicks, both ... highly recommended!

~Zag

17th Angel · 01-24-2007, 04:52 PM

I got that one! It is a good film heh.

Quahom1 · 01-24-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zagreus

This quote, incidentally, is Sean Penn's saving grace in a sermon he preaches in `We're No Angels,' also starring Robert DeNiro. Quite a funny movie, featuring these two as escaped convicts, posing as priests. Most likely based on the much earlier film of the same title, featuring Humphrey Bogart and Peter Ustinov, who similarly deceive a family of shopkeepers, as I recall.

In both instances, the convicts redeem themselves in various ways. Oh! And Demi Moore is in the newer version, in one of her early roles. Good flicks, both ... highly recommended!

~Zag

Yeah, makes one hope there is hope for the rest of us...ordinary people capable of extraordinary feets...

Dondi · 01-25-2007, 12:38 PM

Infinity is such a paradox for us, because we judge things in cycles. Yet it is not that hard for us to imagine that time has always existed, and will continue to exist in eternity future. We are just finding it hard to place ourselves along that timeline. The 20 billion years since the dawn of our universe is not eternity, yet for us, it might as well be, since our lives do not even encompass a hairsbreath of that enormous span of time.

Maybe time is not a linear as we believe it to be. I've heard it say that time is really an illusion, a concept man has invented. I've heard of people who have had NDEs say that while in that state there was no sense of time, but an overwhelming sense of oneness with everything else. Now some will claim that maybe it is merely because the glands in the brain that control our sense of time and space were affected or suppressed during the NDE. But suppose it is our brains that is limiting our experiencing eternity, and that once free from the shackles of the limited physical world we enter into a place where the moments of time and space collide. That eternity is really a loop, in and around itself. After all, Einstein's theory states that time is relative anyway.

If God exists, then He exists in that realm. Trouble is, in the limited of our time/space universe, we have no means of physically touching the eternal.

wil · 01-25-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Trouble is, in the limited of our time/space universe, we have no means of physically touching the eternal.

Namaste Dondi,

I am not pointing this at you, just at the statement. Variations of this abound, that us in our limited state cannot fathom or hope to understand..yadda yadda yadda..

It is true! As the statement itself limits us, as do all affirmations of this type, I can't, I'm not worthy...self fullfilling prophecies all.

Folks touch it all the time, we all glimpse, we've all read stories of folks that have more than glimpsed...

I think if we start agreeing that this understanding is attainable...more will attain it.

Dondi · 01-25-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Dondi,

I am not pointing this at you, just at the statement. Variations of this abound, that us in our limited state cannot fathom or hope to understand..yadda yadda yadda..

It is true! As the statement itself limits us, as do all affirmations of this type, I can't, I'm not worthy...self fullfilling prophecies all.

Folks touch it all the time, we all glimpse, we've all read stories of folks that have more than glimpsed...

I think if we start agreeing that this understanding is attainable...more will attain it.

I was speaking in terms of the scientific measurements, which measuring in a 3D + time dimension would not be able to directly detect dimensions beyond this. It would be akin to 2 dimensional being trying to conceptualize a 3 dimensional world. Now scientists are telling us that there may be up to 10 existing dimensions. How can we even comprehend them.

But then if we have the eyes of faith....

InLove · 01-25-2007, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

I was speaking in terms of the scientific measurements, which measuring in a 3D + time dimension would not be able to directly detect dimensions beyond this. It would be akin to 2 dimensional being trying to conceptualize a 3 dimensional world. Now scientists are telling us that there may be up to 10 existing dimensions. How can we even comprehend them.

But then if we have the eyes of faith....

Maybe we can skip a step or two?

InPeace,
InLove