What you say about this?

islamis4u · 01-27-2008, 05:59 AM

. The Bible has a scientific test how to identify a true believer. It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mark, Ch. No.16, Verse No.17 and 18 - It says that… ‘There will be signs for true believers and among the signs - In my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak foreign tongues, new tongues, they shall take up serpents - And if they drink deadly poison, they shall not be harmed - And when they place their hand over the sick, they shall be cured.’ This is a scientific test - In scientific terminology, it is known as the ‘confirmatory test’ for a true Christian believer. In the past 10 years of my life, I have personally interacted with thousands of Christians, including missionaries - I have not come across a single Christian, who has passed this confirmatory test of the Bible. I have not come across a single Christian who took poison - I have not come across any who took poison, and who has not died. And in scientific terminology, this is also called as the ‘falsification test’ That means if a false person tries and does this test… takes poison, he will die. And a false person will not dare attempt this test - If you are not a true Christian believer, you will not dare attempt this test. Because you try and attempt the falsification test, you will fail. So a person who is not a true Christian believer, will never attempt this test. I have read the book ‘The Qur’an and the Bible in the light of history and science’ written by Dr. William Campbell. And I assume - that he is a true Christian believer, and at least I would like him to confirm to me about the falsification test.

juantoo3 · 01-27-2008, 06:37 AM

Kindest Regards, Islamis4u, and welcome to CR!

I doubt you will get any scientist to agree with your assessment that any religious text provides any scientific test or scientific terminology. That includes the Koran.

Actually, science isn't even about the same things that religion is about. Science is about "how?" Religion is about "why?"

I do not know your Dr. Campbell, and cannot say whether or not he is a true Christian. The late world renowned scientist Stephen J. Gould however would state quite emphatically that science and religion both compose separate "magisteria" that cannot answer to each other, because they are fundamentally constructed to ask and answer completely different types of questions.

path_of_one · 01-27-2008, 07:15 AM

Here is one scientist that agrees. I hardly think what you list is a scientific test of anything, much less of a true believer.

islamis4u · 01-27-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, Islamis4u, and welcome to CR!

I doubt you will get any scientist to agree with your assessment that any religious text provides any scientific test or scientific terminology. That includes the Koran.

Actually, science isn't even about the same things that religion is about. Science is about "how?" Religion is about "why?"

I do not know your Dr. Campbell, and cannot say whether or not he is a true Christian. The late world renowned scientist Stephen J. Gould however would state quite emphatically that science and religion both compose separate "magisteria" that cannot answer to each other, because they are fundamentally constructed to ask and answer completely different types of questions.

Aslam o alikom and thank You very much of welcoming me here.

Brother im really sory but i would have to bit differ with you, i want to ask that as We say Quran is true word of God (Allah), christian say Bible is true word of god. But the thing is that you know that God created the humanity or this world and God knows best what has happened or not in this world or how it was created, i so if Nouazbillah not right what is right in his book then who. Science is thing of hidden discoveries, of the world if God dot knows the best then who?

One thing you can not say that Quran have any mistake like scientific and unscientific, it do not have any, rather alot of scientific established facts which we know now is discovered are in Quran. I talked about scientific facts which have been established and is not any hypothesis, laslty and i may agree that the Book of God is not book of science but the book of Signs, but it signs should be correct. That is all and im sorry if someone feeling is hurt but as this is comparative religion forum so i thought why not right about this.

bob x · 01-27-2008, 08:53 PM

1. There are in fact a large number of "snake handlers" in the United States who do this strange ritual. Most Christians do not approve of "testing God" in such a way, however.
2. That passage is not a genuine part of the gospel of Mark, anyway. It is known to have been added over a century after Mark was written.

islamis4u · 01-27-2008, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob x

1. There are in fact a large number of "snake handlers" in the United States who do this strange ritual. Most Christians do not approve of "testing God" in such a way, however.
2. That passage is not a genuine part of the gospel of Mark, anyway. It is known to have been added over a century after Mark was written.

Okay from this you agree it was added! then their is no point of debate like then so many more would have added in it then. We can say that it is not the true word of God.

No one have done this if someone have then they havn't passed it, we are not testing God but we are checking our ownself it is to nothing to do with testing God.

I believe that your Pop is true Christian i must say. Can he talk in 300 tongues? I know he will pass the test so why not he show to everyone that way.

path_of_one · 01-27-2008, 10:36 PM

Whether or not the passage was added to Mark (which I imagine we'd get some debate on), the point is that Christians (for the most part) do not believe in any "test" of belief. We are told that those who are really following Christ will have evidence in the Fruits of the Spirit (listed in Galatians).

islamis4u · 01-27-2008, 10:40 PM

You are not testing that the thing you are believing in is right you are just testing your ownself. And can you quote me that part of which you are talking about?

mee · 01-28-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islamis4u

. in the Gospel of Mark, Ch. No.16, Verse No.17 and 18 - It says that… ‘There will be signs for true believers and among the signs - In my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak foreign tongues, new tongues, they shall take up serpents - And if they drink deadly poison, they shall not be harmed - And when they place their hand over the sick, they shall be cured.’

and the long and short conclusion is what it is all about

path_of_one · 01-28-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islamis4u

You are not testing that the thing you are believing in is right you are just testing your ownself. And can you quote me that part of which you are talking about?

I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying testing others. We are taught that it is not our job to judge others. As for testing ourself to see if we are becoming closer to Christ, we have the fruits of the spirit to assess our progress:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23)

islamis4u · 02-01-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path_of_one

I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying testing others. We are taught that it is not our job to judge others. As for testing ourself to see if we are becoming closer to Christ, we have the fruits of the spirit to assess our progress:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23)

We should not tempt God… we should not test God - But here, we are not testing God, we are testing the human being.  We should not test God - But here we are testing you, and God promises that any believer, who has deadly poison, he will not die - he will be able to speak in foreign tongues. We are not testing God - we know God is correct - He will see to it that every believer can speak. We are testing you, whether you are a believer or not

bob x · 02-02-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islamis4u

- But here, we are not testing God, we are testing the human being.  We should not test God - But here we are testing you

No, there is nobody who believes that the passage means that human being, by himself, is going to have magical powers to resist snake venom. The passage means that GOD will protect them, not that they themselves have any such power. Deliberately putting yourself in danger in order to test God is a sin.

path_of_one · 02-02-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob x

No, there is nobody who believes that the passage means that human being, by himself, is going to have magical powers to resist snake venom. The passage means that GOD will protect them, not that they themselves have any such power. Deliberately putting yourself in danger in order to test God is a sin.

Yep, this is evidenced by Jesus' response when he was tempted by Satan to cast himself down so as to prove that God would save him.

Further, islamis4u entirely ignored what I said. Most agree that we don't test God, and we don't test ourselves through means that would harm our bodies, which we are taught are to be kept as temples for God.

The evidence of our salvation is in the change of our hearts, fundamental changes to how we respond to others and our own desires (the fruits of the spirit discussed in Galatians).

islamis4u · 02-16-2008, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Yep, this is evidenced by Jesus' response when he was tempted by Satan to cast himself down so as to prove that God would save him.

Further, islamis4u entirely ignored what I said. Most agree that we don't test God, and we don't test ourselves through means that would harm our bodies, which we are taught are to be kept as temples for God.

The evidence of our salvation is in the change of our hearts, fundamental changes to how we respond to others and our own desires (the fruits of the spirit discussed in Galatians).

One thing i would say it is again said that it is testing your own fath not God's okay you believe on God not God on you!!!

I do not ignored rather many other people ignore my whole post and take out one sentence out of context and reply to it!!!

Quahom1 · 02-17-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islamis4u

. The Bible has a scientific test how to identify a true believer. It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mark, Ch. No.16, Verse No.17 and 18 - It says that… ‘There will be signs for true believers and among the signs - In my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak foreign tongues, new tongues, they shall take up serpents - And if they drink deadly poison, they shall not be harmed - And when they place their hand over the sick, they shall be cured.’ This is a scientific test - In scientific terminology, it is known as the ‘confirmatory test’ for a true Christian believer. In the past 10 years of my life, I have personally interacted with thousands of Christians, including missionaries - I have not come across a single Christian, who has passed this confirmatory test of the Bible. I have not come across a single Christian who took poison - I have not come across any who took poison, and who has not died. And in scientific terminology, this is also called as the ‘falsification test’ That means if a false person tries and does this test… takes poison, he will die. And a false person will not dare attempt this test - If you are not a true Christian believer, you will not dare attempt this test. Because you try and attempt the falsification test, you will fail. So a person who is not a true Christian believer, will never attempt this test. I have read the book ‘The Qur’an and the Bible in the light of history and science’ written by Dr. William Campbell. And I assume - that he is a true Christian believer, and at least I would like him to confirm to me about the falsification test.

And I have met ministers and priests and counselors who make a living helping people rid themselves of their demons and afflictions, and addictions and guilt and self loathing.

And I have met missionaries who have gone to foreign lands and spoken to the people their in the languages (new languages to the missionaries) that the people understand, and so brought the Word of God to them.

And I have met people who have disregarded their own safety to save others, and they literally grabbed "serpants" by the head to keep others safe.

And I have met people with cancer, but strong faith, and they have consumed the deadliest of poisons (chemotherapy), and they were not harmed but healed.

And I have met doctors, and nurses and paramedics and EMTs with great faith, and they "placed their hands" over the sick, and cured them.

What everyone of them had in common? A powerful faith in Christ, and a trust that Jesus would guide them, counsel them and be with them as they did the "impossible". Indeed, the people of the times were given a glimpse of the future of what the faithful would be like, a future they could not fully comprehend, yet it gave them hope that there would be "Christians known by their fruits" and capable of such wonders. In fact, I know of Christians who have said in faith "mountain, move here", and the mountain moved. (is not a space shuttle and rocket a mountain of metal and minerals?)

So in reality the "scientific test" bears successful results over and over again. It just depends on how one looks at things.