What's happened to Islam?

[bob x]

OK, Thanks. It is a little depressing to find that she is an exaggerater and attention-seeker. I was hoping she might be a voice for reason.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by bob x

OK, Thanks. It is a little depressing to find that she is an exaggerater and attention-seeker. I was hoping she might be a voice for reason.

Couldn't agree more Bob, when I first heard about her I thought it was wonderful that someone was going to call Muslims to account for their cultural practices and misconceptions. I too was disappointed and then angry because such things make it even more difficult for the real voices of reason to be heard.

[madeinrussia89]

And just reading the script, oh man, that was nothing compared to the video she did on Al Jazeera. That was prettttttty scary.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by madeinrussia89

And just reading the script, oh man, that was nothing compared to the video she did on Al Jazeera. That was prettttttty scary.

It was also very good editing. If you watch the Arabic 'edited' version the woman hardly gets a word in and every point she does get to make is rapidly sho down in flames. Amazing how you can put a slant on things with editing. That is why I like to read transcripts rather than watch videos.

[madeinrussia89]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

It was also very good editing. If you watch the Arabic 'edited' version the woman hardly gets a word in and every point she does get to make is rapidly sho down in flames. Amazing how you can put a slant on things with editing. That is why I like to read transcripts rather than watch videos.

I'm not sure what version I watched but she was getting so irritated that I thought she was going to choke and die.

[Muslimwoman]

You watched the 'western' version then. In the arabic version she was very meek and mild.

You gotta love spin.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I dunno - I'm gobsmacked - when did any interpretation of Islam make it acceptable to kill women and children?

When did any interpretation of any religion make it accetapble to kill, full stop?

maca salāma

[Muslimwoman]

In my studies I have found that virtually all issues that exist today in Islam that oppress women come from interpretations of the Sunnah (hadeeth). The Quran offers amazing rights to women and virtual equality (we are only a degree under men because they are the providers for women).

Upon the death of the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) the men tried to stop his daughters taking their inheritence, even though the Quran clearly sets out inheritence laws. This was how quickly womens rights began to be eroded, until we see places like Afghanstan where women are forced to black out the windows in case a man walking past sees her (what the hell is he doing looking?).

In a way it is good news, as Allah said in the Quran that He would protect it for all time and the inheritence for women is still in the Quran but it shows how politics immediately took control.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

but it shows how politics immediately took control.

Marhaban,

And the Qur'an shall out live politics will it not?

maca salāma

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Marhaban,

And the Qur'an shall out live politics will it not?

maca salāma

The Quran shall out live everything

[dailogue is the best]

in myopinion, the matter has nothing to do with Islam...It has to do with the political and the sociological environment of Muslims....Muslims live in poverty, unemployment, illetracy,ignorance,oppresion...all these are the reasons behind violence in the Muslim world....it has nothing to do with Isalm....
i think Muslims are most of the time prejudiced...anything thety do, people contributed to Islam....bc, unfortunately,Muslims remain in the sight of others primitive and violent people...they contribute these traits to Islam out of ignorance and prejudice
when the Right Party in France caused terrible violence in France, scientists contributed it to the sociological environment....but when we come to Muslims,everything is contributed to Islam....
Moroever,the terrible mistake non Muslims do is that they read Islam in Muslims doings...and if Muslims do the same and read Christians doings{crusades, colonialization,invasion of Afghanestan,Iraq..},and contribute them to Christianity,they will fall in the same mistake.bt,Muslims have a deep idea of Christianity as Muslims believe that Judaism,Christianity and Islam are religions from one God...they are religions of peace and justice...other bad doings of Jewish,Christians,and Muslims represent but the personality of their doers in relation to their environment...
hope this makes things clear............

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

in myopinion, the matter has nothing to do with Islam...It has to do with the political and the sociological environment of Muslims....Muslims live in poverty, unemployment, illetracy,ignorance,oppresion...all these are the reasons behind violence in the Muslim world....

That is quite a sweeping statement and I am afraid I have to disagree. Most of the fundamental Islamic terrorists are well educated and come from at least middle class families. Just look at Osama & Co, you don't get much more wealthy than them.

I know many very poor, illiterate Muslims and they would never dream of such attrocities, they are much more interested in day to day worries like where the next meal is coming from and will the donkeys sore foot be ok.

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

it has nothing to do with Isalm....

Here I agree, it is to do with power and wealth.

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

i think Muslims are most of the time prejudiced...anything thety do, people contributed to Islam....bc,

Who are we prejudiced against or do you mean people are prejudiced against Muslims?

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

they contribute these traits to Islam out of ignorance and prejudice

Well some of that ignorance comes from within the Muslim community itself. When you have Muslims marching in streets demanding the death of a teacher because she allowed children to call a teddy bear Mohammad (which is not a sacred name) then Muslims must expect some backlash and prejudice. Until all Muslims feel responsible for actions such as these and speak out loudly to stop them then the mistrust will continue.

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

but when we come to Muslims,everything is contributed to Islam....

I think that is because some Muslims use Islam to defend their actions. When people shout Allahu Akbar while cutting off someones head with a dagger and reading verses of the Quran to justify their actions then of course non Muslims will be confused about Islam. We also have many scholars that totally disagree on many issues, some state very clearly that suicide bombing is jihad, while others point out that the Quran forbids suicide. It confuses the hell out of me, so what chance do non Muslims have of understanding what is and is not Islam?

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

other bad doings of Jewish,Christians,and Muslims represent but the personality of their doers in relation to their environment...

I absolutely agree with this statement but we have to understand that any faith can be twisted to suit a political purpose and Islam is being hijacked by radical extremists.

[I, Brian]

What I find really incredible is when Muslims target Mosques:
BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | 'Four held' over Pakistan bombing

I guess it simply underlines how extreme these people are.

[dailogue is the best]

salam dear MW,
first of all, i would like to express my admiration towards you. you are so nice,open minded,friendly,objective,kind,hard working,truth seeker person...these are some of many traits i fell you enjoy whenever i read your replies..Actually,i m very happy that you commented on my reply....

you said:"Most of the fundamental Islamic terrorists are well educated and come from at least middle class families. Just look at Osama & Co, you don't get much more wealthy than them." I dont deny what you said here, but let me ask you: Can Osama give a clearcut Quranic verse which permits him what he did? yes,he can pretend,and non muslims may attribute what he did to Islam, but when we look at the teachings of Islam,we find that what he did is A GREAT ATROCITY. Here a question arises itself: what is the ideology that Osama, if it isnt Islamic? Olivier Roy is a research director at the French National Center for Scientific Research (CNRS) states that Osama has no Islamic project, and that his main concern is to attack US in its capitalist manifestations(the world trade center i.e.) to the degree that Olivier makes a parallell btween communists and Qaeda..so,the idea of ignorance and poverty as causes of Islamic voilence cant be applied on Qaeda which has other objectives,far from the Islamic ones...
you said:"I know many very poor, illiterate Muslims and they would never dream of such attrocities, they are much more interested in day to day worries like where the next meal is coming from and will the donkeys sore foot be ok." yes,MW, i do agree with you that there many illeterate Muslims who have immunity against being brainstormed, but here i make a big difference between alphabetism and ignorance....there are many people who are illeterat, but they are conscious and have a deep knowledege of their religion(good upbringing), so, here we v the problem of poverty alone, bt when we v both ignorance and poverty, here we v a problem....when ignorance marries poverty then they give birth to the mother of calamities...

you said:"I think that is because some Muslims use Islam to defend their actions."...I totally agree with you...Non Muslims will not learn about Islam through the Quran or Sunnah as they ll learn about it through Muslims doings...Muslims have to be aware of this fact...they have to know that they are doing so much harm to Islam when they behave badly....Muslims have to be aware that they are ambassadors of their relegion through actions and not through words...at last, actions speak louder than words...

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

salam dear MW,
first of all, i would like to express my admiration towards you. you are so nice,open minded,friendly,objective,kind,hard working,truth seeker person...these are some of many traits i fell you enjoy whenever i read your replies..Actually,i m very happy that you commented on my reply....

wa aleykum salaam

I am very flattered but fear my thoughts are far too simple to deserve such praise, I simply speak as I find (sometimes correctly and sometimes incorrectly).

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

so,the idea of ignorance and poverty as causes of Islamic voilence cant be applied on Qaeda which has other objectives,far from the Islamic ones...

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

when ignorance marries poverty then they give birth to the mother of calamities...

I thought a lot about your response and my mind had to consider the taliban in Afghanistan - yes I agree completely, when that level of ignorance meets poverty it is a recipe for disaster. Add in a few men with desires for wealth and power and boom the place erupts.

Osama is a product of the Saudi radicals and my fear is often that while the western governments are bombing Iraq they are also befriending Saudi, where many of these unacceptable and unIslamic practices are coming from in my opinion. I accept Osama clearly is defficient in his knowledge of Islam and the world would be a better place if he stopped fighting and started studying, however when he flies the flag of Islam who but true
Muslims can call him to account?

The difficulty we are left with is that both of these groups 'claim' to be the true Islam and commit such attrocities in the name of Allah. Non Muslims can hardly be blamed for believing they are in fact actng as true Muslims.

The problem is what can we do about it? I love to speak with non Muslims and explain Islam, in it's true light but when I speak on Muslims forums my heart sinks. There are British born Muslims who are verbally praising the Taliban and when I ask for any Quranic evidence that women must live behind blackened windows I am told I am not really a Muslim and do not understand. This troubles me greatly, that young minds are so closed and being so driven by things they do not even understand and would reject if they ever actually visited any of these places.