What's happened to Islam? - Page 16

greymare · 12-29-2007, 01:20 PM

this is why we love tohear your thoughts and opinions sally, your heart is muslim but clearly you respond to us that are not. we love you for it.

Muslimwoman · 12-29-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymare

this is why we love tohear your thoughts and opinions sally, your heart is muslim but clearly you respond to us that are not. we love you for it.

Oh thank you Grey, what a lovely comment and I love you too. I just accept people for what we are .... fallable, there is good and bad in every society, religion, race, gender, etc. I also trust to the very centre of my being that Allah knows this better than anyone and will be just and fair on the day we all return to Him.

Salam my friend

greymare · 12-29-2007, 01:35 PM

ya see, thats just it isnt it. we are all good. lets just try to be good together.
salam(dunno what it means but it sound soooo cool. ) to you 2

Muslimwoman · 12-29-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymare

salam(dunno what it means but it sound soooo cool. ) to you 2

salam means peace (just sounds so much nicer in Arabic!!)

islamis4u · 01-27-2008, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

What's happened to Islam, when it becomes regarded as acceptable to Muslim women and children?

I know - the extremism happening in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan - isn't typical of Islam, is seeded in US foreign policy, and have national political dimensions.

But at some point, these people being trained to carry out suicide bombings are being (apparently) told that their targets are not proper Muslims, and therefore it is acceptable to kill them.

And while we hear the Arab world condemning such bombings, we also see ugly political machinations - Iran wants to support the Iraqi Shi'as, Saudi Arabia wants to support the Sunni's.

We have a fracturing of the entire Middle East between Sunni and Shi'a Islam - previously at relative peace - and the extremists are blowing open the cracks where they can, inspiring even British Muslims to turn against any apparatus of a perceived enemy.

I dunno - I'm gobsmacked - when did any interpretation of Islam make it acceptable to kill women and children?

Its a bit difficult question.............Firstly as i live in Pakistan so may be i know better the reason behind as i gone through this topic most of you live non-asiatic countries and other most in middle east, the point is that suicidal attacks in Pakistan are not because of the sects i may clear you that they may differences between them but no suicidal attacks are here in Pakistan because of sects. Secondly that the suicidal attacks are occuring because of politics you know Benazir's assisnation was political not by you extremest rather i admit their had suicidal attacks but most of them were done by the political agents and some are made to happen so, you know which ever bomb explode in Pakistan our media immediately says that it was a suicidal attack. Right most of the bombs are used are remote controlled or time bombs. who is doing this? I may tell you America have to play major role in it the bomb attacks which is not suicidal is mostly done by Americans you know why to destroy Pakistan, you would be now a days listening that America is trying to launch an attack on Iran,and you would be also seeing that America is trying to start pointing out that Pakistan's Nuclear weponary is now no more secure we should help them clean the militants, so that America can also have go on Pakistan so that the only Muslim country with nuclear is not good for Israel. America after attacking so many countries is making Israel strong and Muslims weak you would also have known how big amount America have for Israel in the budget why? America is having two things one is the reason to attack Pakistan and other is to create civil war by it between army and whom you call extremest so i say you its not because of religion but mostly because of Poltics. About very few suicidal attacks which you call are conducted by to whom you called extremest have more two factors one is that on the say of America our President have sent army to our tribal area to kill the people who are linked with Taliban. Second is that the people or area of a people want to have shariah so for that they are fighting but our will never allow to flourish shariah. The thing our country is the only country which was made in the name of Islam and they want Islam in Pakistan the group of people where they all the other also wanted the shariah imposed in their region but our President is not allowing it because they thing that we should be modernized. So why not allow them to impose shariah i their region where all the people living are wanting it. Other part of country knows that they want shriah but the way they are going for it is not right. But they want shariah i say why not impose it in a country may i tell you Islam never say no to technology improvement but the thins Islam have on the way we use it likewise what we do with internet some will use it for something wrong but some will use it for religion. So islam is till the day of judgment so why are we ashamed of applying it in our lives. You all also have heard of Lal Masjid isssue in Islamabad you know i may be speaking something that some would think im developing sects but shia armed forces did the operation in the Lal Masjid. You know many small sisters and elder sisters were present around about 700 to 800 but our president did not wanted them to live. May i tell a agreement was made between the Lal masjid people and minister for religion and other ministers and this was sent to Musharraf for approval but he rejected and after that after 2 to 3 hours they started operation the lal masjid people were saying that forgive them all and they will insure that they will not indulge in this kind of activity anymore but President did not liked it. They killed them all. all the our sister hafiz our sister alims our brother hafiz our brotheralims were killed on one man say, our small young hafiz sisters were buctured yo death and their was no one to see them . You many of them were those who lost thier family members in earth quake from which Pakistan suffered from. You know to hide the number of people martyred they blew up all the bodies of the young hafiz sisters and brothers, because every where around them media was present to save themselves did you see what they do. Now look Allahforbide you have only person in a family and he was killed like itold you above the what will happern. One of a person i know very well lives in the area where operation is being conducted now , he told me he said last night when got to his home a bomb of a tank was fired on the madersa and 50 or so children were killed, at the funereal he told me that he saw a father he said look i lived my whole life for my young and now im very old and i do not have any other relative what i do my whole life is flattened. Now put yourself in that place? I do not say that suicidal attack is right in Islam its only right in one when you blow yourself when in war fight with the army of non-Muslim and should have to see that of civilian Muslim or non-Muslim should not die in it. Before calling someone terrorist do see the reason behind it. And you should e proud to call yourself extremest Muslim why because Islam teaches everything right if i call ma extremest Muslim what is wrong Islam teaches us fraternity, brotherhood, kindness with all other, or to speak truth and etc etc, so if i call my self extremest kind , extreme truthful then what is wrong tell me?

At last i posted so long post but the thing is sects are not the main reason but our going towards west doing what west do our leaders are not the true leader now we are going away from our religion some now muslims say music is not forbidden is Islam we want not to change ourself for Islam we want Islam to change for us and that is the real downfall of the Muslim. As i have seen you mostly live in Britain and other western country would always follow English news channels like bbc , cnn etc they do not depict the true picture but they depict what Bush want, they want Muslims to fight with each other,we should be united we should and should go back to our true religion. What America is doing that for the sake of the some individual needs they are killing Muslims, and one way they are killing them and earning money with that and other way round using same money to make Muslim away from the true religion by entering their culture through media and other things.

We Muslims have to see what our are duties we are, and don't always lame ourself i see many Muslims saying that say that ooh we are the extremest we are like that we Muslims are like and that and so on. So i do not say that we should not rectify ourself but also do not insult ourself so much. See the reason and then speak.

It was what our Holy Prophet (pbuh) said that a day will come we will mal-treated by non-muslims when we will go away from our religion. i would have talked much on this topic and about sects and other thing. Alhamdulilah i also have much knowledge about sects like comparative religion so i want to say do not indulge in these sects like things i hope this message will be seen correctly

Jazak Allah Khair

greymare · 01-27-2008, 05:44 AM

if I may Jazak Allah Khair, I am just an ignorant westerner, so I might ask a question and I hope not to offend you. OK? first of all, Pakistan has a good cricket team, however not as good as us Aussies. (laugh now). I feel a lot of pity for the suffering of your people. I have read all of your post. I still do not agree with suicide (of any kind, actually). I have looked for the reason and it is still not clear to me. Clearly, both sides need to spend time in each others lives to see how it is for them. I didnt understand that you called Comparative Religion a sect and that others do not indulge in these sects. Personally, to me knowledge is more powerful than any faith. I understand that you have great faith and I have none. thats ok. I get that with Christians as well. But I feel, the more I know about others the less inclined I am to judge them. What do you think about that.
Salaam. (I hope that was correct)

islamis4u · 01-27-2008, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymare

if I may Jazak Allah Khair, I am just an ignorant westerner, so I might ask a question and I hope not to offend you. OK? first of all, Pakistan has a good cricket team, however not as good as us Aussies. (laugh now). I feel a lot of pity for the suffering of your people. I have read all of your post. I still do not agree with suicide (of any kind, actually). I have looked for the reason and it is still not clear to me. Clearly, both sides need to spend time in each others lives to see how it is for them. I didnt understand that you called Comparative Religion a sect and that others do not indulge in these sects. Personally, to me knowledge is more powerful than any faith. I understand that you have great faith and I have none. thats ok. I get that with Christians as well. But I feel, the more I know about others the less inclined I am to judge them. What do you think about that.
Salaam. (I hope that was correct)

Walikum Salam,

Thank you for your compliment brother, my faith is not much im just a student and nothing else, secondly that, i said that im not justifying any suicidal attar its very wrong and against Islam but we should also see the causes and the one who suicidal attack must also should change their attitude and i do not said that comparative religion studies and sects in religion are one they both different. Lastly that i said we should indulge much in sects in religion it divides us and we should call ourself a Muslim, we should gather knowledge about the sects but do not indulge means we should not take part like saying that im from this sect and im from this sect.

Jazak Allah Khair

greymare · 01-27-2008, 08:33 AM

oh I apologise, I must have misinterpreted what you said. by the way, Im a woman, but that is ok and Shoaib Aktar ( I hope I spelt his name correctly ) is a legend at cricket.

Muslimwoman · 01-27-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by islamis4u

i said that im not justifying any suicidal attar its very wrong and against Islam but we should also see the causes

as salaam aleykum wa ramatullahi wa barakatuh

I do agree that we should see their causes but I am sorry I cannot share your view that this is all a conspiracy by the US to kill Muslims. I have no love of the US government and am appalled by what they are doing in the Middle East but I do not believe they are the root of all the problems.

I have over 300 Arabic tv channels and I want to cry when I see Mickey Mouse being used to teach children that they should 'kill the infidels'. I get angry when I see Imams calling their followers to commit a grave sin and kill themselves and others in the name of Allah. And I get confused when one scholar states absolutely that music is haraam and then another scholar, from the same madrassa, states absolutely that music is not haraam.

I sit here on Friday and listen to the propaganda streaming from some of the mosques, the hatred that spews out about Jews and that I, if I am a good Muslim, must hate people en masse. I will not do this and I do not believe that Allah or the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) instructed me to hate any nation of people, just because they are named something different.

This must stop and while Muslims are saying we should not blame ourselves it never will stop.

Islam is not to blame for it, people are, Muslims with political agendas that use Islam. Yes the western governments have a lot to answer for but both sides must stop accusing each other and get their own house in order. The political and religious hatred and teaching of hatred must end, from both sides.

Are we not taught by our Beloved Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) that we, as Muslims, must be the example to the world? What sort of example are we setting if we say 'it is all their fault' while teaching our children to kill and hate? Yes Muslims have a right to defend ourselves but some have gone from defence to attack and we know that is haraam.

Salaam

shamsery · 01-27-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

as salaam aleykum wa ramatullahi wa barakatuh

I do agree that we should see their causes but I am sorry I cannot share your view that this is all a conspiracy by the US to kill Muslims. I have no love of the US government and am appalled by what they are doing in the Middle East but I do not believe they are the root of all the problems.

I have over 300 Arabic tv channels and I want to cry when I see Mickey Mouse being used to teach children that they should 'kill the infidels'. I get angry when I see Imams calling their followers to commit a grave sin and kill themselves and others in the name of Allah. And I get confused when one scholar states absolutely that music is haraam and then another scholar, from the same madrassa, states absolutely that music is not haraam.

I sit here on Friday and listen to the propaganda streaming from some of the mosques, the hatred that spews out about Jews and that I, if I am a good Muslim, must hate people en masse. I will not do this and I do not believe that Allah or the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) instructed me to hate any nation of people, just because they are named something different.

This must stop and while Muslims are saying we should not blame ourselves it never will stop.

Islam is not to blame for it, people are, Muslims with political agendas that use Islam. Yes the western governments have a lot to answer for but both sides must stop accusing each other and get their own house in order. The political and religious hatred and teaching of hatred must end, from both sides.

Are we not taught by our Beloved Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) that we, as Muslims, must be the example to the world? What sort of example are we setting if we say 'it is all their fault' while teaching our children to kill and hate? Yes Muslims have a right to defend ourselves but some have gone from defence to attack and we know that is haraam.

Salaam

Peace , Mercy and Blessing of Allah(swt)be on you.

Form Islamic view point killing innocent people narrated like this

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. 5:32

Muslimwoman · 01-27-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamsery

Peace , Mercy and Blessing of Allah(swt)be on you.

Form Islamic view point killing innocent people narrated like this

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. 5:32

and the Peace, Mercy and Blessing of Allah be on you.

This is one of the greatest problems from where I sit. What is an innocent person? To me it is anyone that has not attacked me or the Muslim people because of their faith. Some Imams say it is anyone that is not Muslim, because if you are not Muslim you cannot be innocent but with this attitude the killing and hatred will never stop.

Lecter · 01-27-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

and the Peace, Mercy and Blessing of Allah be on you.

This is one of the greatest problems from where I sit. What is an innocent person? To me it is anyone that has not attacked me or the Muslim people because of their faith. Some Imams say it is anyone that is not Muslim, because if you are not Muslim you cannot be innocent but with this attitude the killing and hatred will never stop.

Ah but the Qur'an also says:

Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers. [60:8]

shamsery · 01-27-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

What is an innocent person? To me it is anyone that has not attacked me or the Muslim people because of their faith. Some Imams say it is anyone that is not Muslim, because if you are not Muslim you cannot be innocent but with this attitude the killing and hatred will never stop.

Salam,
1.Good Question
2. Controversial
3. You are correct.

Muslimwoman · 01-27-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lecter

Ah but the Qur'an also says:

Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers. [60:8]

Unfortunately Lecter what Allah tells us in the Quran and what people choose to interpret are sometimes very different things.

islamis4u · 01-27-2008, 06:49 PM

I again saying i was talking about Pakistan in Pakistan, There is no sucidal attacks because of sects in Islam, okay i told you about the points that why are they created i said that look not everything is not because of American policies, you said about the Imams of egypt but im saying about Pakistan, i live in their i know people i know the people of Pakistan, and the thing what is happening their its not my views its the view of Pakistani, our intelligence agency is the most powerful intelligence may be now some politician of Pakistan have degraded it but still it is, i may be not with view of these people that we should blow ourself it is rightly said is wrong but the thing is that i have talked to them in knew their feelings and what is America doin in Pakistan,

Apart from this i do not see you read whole article but i said that something we should also see in ourself what we are doing we are also going away from our religion and that is also causing much and much problems.