What's the Deal?

[Conscience]

"What we share in common is a love of Jesus, a devotion to God, and a desire for truth."

Yes, indeed! Thanks for being so nice,

God Bless!

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Conscience

"What we share in common is a love of Jesus, a devotion to God, and a desire for truth."

Yes, indeed! Thanks for being so nice,

God Bless!

I'm gonna be nice too. This is the biggest stone I could find. You can throw it...

Sin is sin, it don't matter who what where or when. Like my good friend and priest said (echoing the minister above) "What do I see when the parish comes into the church...with the exception of babies and children, I see a wretched mass of sad humans, and when I look at the cross, I realize I am in the same boat with them..."

Ouch.

v/r

Q

[path_of_one]

In response-

We are commanded in the Bible to judge ourselves and to make decisions for ourselves whether or not to follow a religious teacher and what right action is.

We are not commanded in the Bible to judge others in such a way that we become intolerant of them.

Reread all of the verses you posted. It's all there. You can tell me what some pastor has to say to warp these verses into an excuse to openly be judgmental of other people, but it isn't going to change the interpretation I've received by bringing these verses to God in prayer.

I think you are missing the whole point I've tried numerous times to make: We all sin, so we are never able to fully remove the plank from our own eye. Thus, we would always be hypocrites to judge another's sins, because we are never without sin ourselves. The verses are not saying that once we "judge ourselves" we are free to judge others. The verses are saying that once we rid ourselves of sin (the plank in our eye), then we are free to judge others. We can never rid ourselves of sin, so we are never free to judge others. Only God/Jesus is free from sin, and thus only He is judge.

That does not mean that we don't make decisions (judgments) about what actions we feel are right for us, and what religious teachers to follow. There is a big difference between deciding an action is wrong for ourselves, or a teacher is not one we should follow, and being intolerant and judgmental of other people. For example, it has been revealed to me in my spiritual journey that I have a responsibility to take care of this earth (God's creation)- to recycle, work on environmental issues, be kind to all life, etc. Many Christians haven't come to this decision. It is only my place to judge my own actions and to choose leaders that are in line with the beliefs and ethics that were revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. It is not my place to judge my fellow human beings and tell them they are wrong, bad, or going to hell because they do not take responsibility for caring for God's creation. I still have other sins in my life I struggle with, as we all do, and so I must work on removing the "planks from my own eye" and not focus on the splinters in my fellow humans'.
We are clearly instructed to support one another's spiritual journey and to not cause stumbling blocks in others' faith. Well, I can tell you that I know a lot of atheists who were once Christians, and they say they are atheist because of the intolerance and lack of love displayed by their fellow Christians. Their persecution and judgment by others only deepens their separation from the faith. Many begin to discuss God with me, and think there may be more than just this one life- not because I tell them they are going to hell, or that they are full of sin, or that x and y actions are wrong... they come to me and discuss God because I extend the love of God in my actions. I do not judge them and then say "But I'm only doing this because I love you!" Anyone can see through such a falsehood. Love is embracing the person and leading by example, and then when they ask, your beliefs are respected and taken seriously, because you have already shown that you "practice what you preach." Since the Good News was God's gift of love to us, we must practice love.

[Conscience]

"We are not commanded in the Bible to judge others in such a way that we become intolerant of them."

Again, I agree! One cannot say they love someone, and is intolerant agaisnt them. In truth, this sort of person wouuld be a liar! What I said, and continue to say is - "As a Bible believer, I cannot be tolerant to other ways that say they are leading to God." Why? Because God said in his word that there is only one way - His way, through the Sacrifice he made. About making righteous judging however, I see that you still dont get it. In short, a righteous judgment is just obeying God's guide rules outlined in the Bible. Here's a really good topic for an example:

God said in his word that he is against homosexuality. While I know that I am commanded by God to LOVE EVERYONE as myself, I am also instructed in speaking God's truth - in other words, call a spade a spade. So heres what I would do, and already do, with homosexuals who call themselves Chrisitans. In love, I show them where God is against it. I qoute the word (wich is sharper than any two-edge sword), and let God open their eyes to his truth. I in NO way judge them, and tell them that they are going to hell. I do however echo Jesus' words - "If you do not repent of your sins, you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven."

Do you see what I mean about righteous Judgement now?

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Conscience

Do you see what I mean about righteous Judgement now?

I see what you mean, and I saw what you meant before. I just do not agree with it. We have each stated our beliefs, and why we believe them. At this point, we will just have to agree to disagree. Christianity encompasses a tremendous amount of diversity in belief and practice, and always has from its earliest days.

[Conscience]

"I see what you mean, and I saw what you meant before. I just do not agree with it."

Thats cool! Like you said, we can agree to disagree.

[Quahom1]

Amen.