When is it appropriate to share your religious faith with others?

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

My privacy is not lost by answering the door, or by opening my ears, or by opening my eyes, or by opening my mind to someone else's beliefs. My privacy is lost as I open my mouth.

OK. To each his own. Let me ask you this: If I have no interest in what you're selling, doesn't the spirit of the Golden Rule require me to save you from wasting your time by kindly sending you on your way? Or do you think that people somehow have an obligation to make themselves available to sales people and proselytizers?

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Cyberpi,


Buddy sometimes you are so anal that I find it really difficult to see how you can go through life thinking everything smells of roses. lol, you can be funny tho

Reminds me of the Lennon lyric from Hey Jude: "the movement you need is on your shoulders."

Chris

[mee]

Originally Posted by Dawud

I saw a pigeon on the way home today. Seriously.

did you recieve the goodnews message, or did you send it on its way

[mee]

[quote=Dondi;150018] Keep in mind that in many cases these people have been indoctrinated into their belief system for a long time, even grown up with it. And right or wrong, that is all they know. quote]




I think you will find that when it comes to JEHOVAHS WITNESSES they are for the most part people who have come out of all different types of religions , and rather than not knowing about other religions they are very up on what other religions are teaching.

so it seems that many including you ,have a wrong thought about JEHOVAHS WITNESSES .

the GREAT CROWD who are spoken of in revelation 7-9-10 are from all nations ,and yes they have come out of the various religious beliefs and now they are waving their symbolic palm branch to welcome Gods reigning king JESUS CHRIST and the one on the throne JEHOVAH GOD

and they are now making known GOODNEWS matthew 24;14.



They have heeded the command from JESUS in REVELATION 18;4


GET OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE

i am out of my old religious belief and i am now doing what Jesus commanded in matthew 28;19-20.


and it is very good

[Nick the Pilot]

China,

You have made some good points. These points and others are why my belief system prohibits me from going door to door.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by mee

I think you will find that when it comes to JEHOVAHS WITNESSES they are for the most part people who have come out of all different types of religions , and rather than not knowing about other religions they are very up on what other religions are teaching.

Many of the one's I've known may have grown up in another denomination or religion, but I suspect only marginally so, at least the ones I've met.

the GREAT CROWD who are spoken of in revelation 7-9-10 are from all nations ,and yes they have come out of the various religious beliefs and now they are waving their symbolic palm branch to welcome Gods reigning king JESUS CHRIST and the one on the throne JEHOVAH GOD.

I thought only 144,000 were in heaven before the throne. While that's a crowd, it isn't a great crowd. Or perhaps you are speaking of 'a great multitude, which no man can number..." which are before the throne of God. I imagine that 144,000 can be numbered, no?

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

OK. To each his own. Let me ask you this: If I have no interest in what you're selling, doesn't the spirit of the Golden Rule require me to save you from wasting your time by kindly sending you on your way?

I view the golden rule as a symmetry. With it you write the answer for yourself in every detail.

It is the person who pursues you that you have to convince to leave you alone if you are not interested and want some isolation. If you resort to threats of violence then by the golden rule you are a person that likes to equally receive threats of violence in a similar situation. If you treat it as a crime that someone seeks your attention then it would be a crime when you seek someone else's attention.

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Or do you think that people somehow have an obligation to make themselves available to sales people and proselytizers?

Would you say that people have an obligation to follow the golden rule? You will give your time and mind to others as you will, and I will give my time and mind to others as I will.

What do you think constitutes an obligation: an agreement, or a consequence? At some level even the ownership of a private space like a house is an agreement with other people to respect the ownership of the space. It is those people in the world who a person will have to contend with in that agreement. I further find that there are positive consequences to hearing out other people, and if an agreement is in place then in some cases there can be negative consequences for not hearing other people.

For example the IRS is trying to sell or proselytize me their government ideals and I'm frankly no longer interested in supporting them. I think I do have an obligation to contend with them and seek agreement in one way or another. I consider it no different with any other person on the street. Whether pursued or in my own pursuits, I feel an obligation to try to seek agreement even as I often find myself in disagreement.

[bob x]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

otherwise we might become different ideological species, and risk losing our cohesive humanity, so to speak

Aren't you taking it for granted that new species are a bad thing?

[Dream]

I think of people that come to the door as hitchhikers. Several times I have given hitchhikers a lift, but one day a hitchhiker pulled a gun on me and wanted to go further than was reasonable. I survived, and did so without driving an inch further, however after that I cut way down on giving out rides.

When a person comes to my door, I'm not sure what I'll do; however it could be an opportunity for me to release someone who is perhaps trapped within a very controlling environment. If it be someone who I think I could deal with as a friend or who I could find some help for, I could offer them some kind of assistance in the event that they ever fell into disfavor within their group. I might (if I were feeling very safe and generous) try to make them feel like I was religiously disinterested, yet interested in my visitors as valuable people. They would, of course, feel they had to turn away from my nonreligious interest in them; but I would ideally still leave them with the feeling that they were always welcome should they ever fall into distress, need to borrow the salt, or escape from abuse. This is, I think, an ideal way to handle visitors to the extent that it is possible. Its not always possible, however wouldn't it be nice if I could be so nice.

Its not that I don't have my own faith, however people have to be free to choose on their own. The person at my door is on a mission and is not free, so discussing my religious point of view would not be profitable for them. Instead, I should make them free.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by bob x

Aren't you taking it for granted that new species are a bad thing?

It could be good or it could be bad. (It could ratchet tribalism and racism up another notch to a completely new level. Humans have found it easier to kill others when they view them as 'nonhumans.' Likewise, we could blame this tendency to kill on our 'human-ness,' which is something that is actually best left behind. However, I can see how difficult it would be for a new, non-aggressive human-derived species to survive with all the rest of us 'mundane' humans around....)

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

China,

You have made some good points. These points and others are why my belief system prohibits me from going door to door.

Lol, Nick! I'm trying to imagine a theosophical missionary. They used to have adverts for the Rosicrucians in the back of Popular Mechanics, as I recall. If I were you all I'd just poach off the UU'ers.

Chris

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Dream

I think of people that come to the door as hitchhikers. Several times I have given hitchhikers a lift, but one day a hitchhiker pulled a gun on me and wanted to go further than was reasonable. I survived, and did so without driving an inch further, however after that I cut way down on giving out rides.

When a person comes to my door, I'm not sure what I'll do; however it could be an opportunity for me to release someone who is perhaps trapped within a very controlling environment. If it be someone who I think I could deal with as a friend or who I could find some help for, I could offer them some kind of assistance in the event that they ever fell into disfavor within their group. I might (if I were feeling very safe and generous) try to make them feel like I was religiously disinterested, yet interested in my visitors as valuable people. They would, of course, feel they had to turn away from my nonreligious interest in them; but I would ideally still leave them with the feeling that they were always welcome should they ever fall into distress, need to borrow the salt, or escape from abuse. This is, I think, an ideal way to handle visitors to the extent that it is possible. Its not always possible, however wouldn't it be nice if I could be so nice.

Its not that I don't have my own faith, however people have to be free to choose on their own. The person at my door is on a mission and is not free, so discussing my religious point of view would not be profitable for them. Instead, I should make them free.

This post sounds almost like James chapter 1, (including the law of liberty mentioned therein.) The last sentence from that chapter being this:

27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Dondi

I thought only 144,000 were in heaven before the throne. While that's a crowd, it isn't a great crowd. Or perhaps you are speaking of 'a great multitude, which no man can number..." which are before the throne of God. I imagine that 144,000 can be numbered, no?

the GREAT CROWD or multitude as you say , are the ones spoken of AFTER the 144,000 , yes you are correct the 144,000 are the ones that will be going to heaven with Jesus , as revelation 14;1 shows us.

And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. REVELATION 14;1

but remember Jesus said that he would have OTHER SHEEP that were not of that little flock . JOHN 10;16

and the great crowd without number are the ones spoken of in revelation 7;9-10 these are the ones that will get through the GREAT TRIBULATION revelation 7;14


and even though it says that they are before the throne it does not mean that they need to be in heaven .
No man can tell in advance how many there will be.


Their robes are washed white in the blood of the Lamb, symbolizing that they have a righteous standing before Jehovah by virtue of their faith in Jesus’ sacrifice. (Revelation 7:14)

And they are waving palm branches, hailing Messiah as their King.






It is fitting, then, that the great crowd, though no part of spiritual Israel,(144,000)
should wave palm branches, since they joyfully and gratefully ascribe the victory and salvation to God and to the Lamb, as John here observes


"And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: ‘Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.’" (Revelation 7:10) Although they have been separated out of all ethnic groups, the great crowd cry out with just that one "loud voice."




This great crowd is part of the only truly united multinational organization on earth today.

They do not have different standards for different countries but apply the Bible’s right principles consistently wherever they live.


They are not involved in nationalistic, revolutionary movements but have truly ‘beaten swords into plowshares.’ (Isaiah 2:4)


They are not divided into sects or denominations, so that they shout confused or mutually contradictory messages as do the religions of Christendom

nor do they leave it to a professional clergy class to do their praising for them.


They do not cry out that they owe salvation to the holy spirit, for they are not servants of a trinitarian god.


In geographical territories around the earth, they are at one in calling upon the name of Jehovah as they speak the one pure language of truth.

(Zephaniah 3:9)

Properly, they publicly acknowledge that their salvation comes from Jehovah, the God of salvation, through Jesus Christ, His Chief Agent of salvation.—Psalm 3:8; Hebrews 2:10.


yes this GREAT CROWD without number is very clear to see and the preaching of the GOODNEWS by that GREAT CROWD , is bringing yet more responsive ones to join that GREAT CROWD, to put them in unity with the little flock of 144,000 spoken of earlier .

Jesus said that they would not be a part of that little flock (144,000)


ITS ALL HAPPENING ESPECIALLY IN THE LAST DAYS

[Dondi]

and even though it says that they are before the throne it does not mean that they need to be in heaven .

This makes no sense to me. How can they not be in heaven, yet before the throne of God?

[Alex P]

Originally Posted by Dondi

This makes no sense to me. How can they not be in heaven, yet before the throne of God?

Dondi, ask you a question.... Where is god?