When the next prophet comes?

[kkawohl]

Originally Posted by barefootgal9

Well - before you can prescribe for us "a more modern concept of who/what God is" - methinks it might be useful to start by understanding what the Baha'i concept is/is not. Don't you think? You'll find many of His writings at the site given in my previous post. Or for a general overview of what the Baha'i community is actually doing to help bring about unity, I recommend baha'i.org

It's quite possible we don't believe in the same "God" you don't believe in.
;-)

As for God not interfering. Oh, but He does! Just giving a "new message" is an intervention, wouldn't you agree?

There is only one God but many concepts and interpretations thereof. God providing a new message is God's option, unrestrained by any specific time period. This is providing guidance through his messenger; it is up the recipient to accept or reject this message. Guiding mankind's development like a Master Planner is not the same as intervening, interferring or meddling in the affairs of mankind.

You stated, "Thus the Baha'i revelation does not "compete" or "war intentionally" with the revelations of the past, but rather encompasses their spiritual teachings, expands the depths of those teachings, extends our reach, and also provides a body of social teachings and laws uniquely fitted to the needs of an age speedily building a global, united human community".

I agree. So also a new message from God will vary from the past, but it does not compete with or void the revelations of the past, but rather encompasses their spiritual teachings, expands the depths of those teachings, extends our reach, and also provides a body of social teachings and laws uniquely "fitted to the needs of a new age" speedily building a global, united human community.

Namaste,
Kurt

[arthra]

Kurt wrote:

"... a new message from God will vary from the past, but it does not compete with or void the revelations of the past, but rather encompasses their spiritual teachings, expands the depths of those teachings, extends our reach, and also provides a body of social teachings and laws uniquely "fitted to the needs of a new age" speedily building a global, united human community."

Reply:

Regarding voiding or abrogating past ordinances:

I think the Baha'i view is that each Revelation from God is spiritually the same but varies as to meeting the requirements of the age in which it is revealed... So some laws are actually abrogated or deleted as we know from the Baha'i revelation where Jihad has been abrogated. There are other examples where various ordinances in religions have been changed and these reflect the needs of humanity and set the stage for the establishment of a new covenant with humanity.

Specific time periods are significant:

Each revelation also has fulfilled the prophesies of the previous ones, so in our view the specific time period given by Baha'u'llah as a thousand years before the next Manifestation of God appears is accepted by us. The Bab also provided prophetic clues when He prophesied regarding Him Whom God would make manifest and in our view the Bab Himself fulfilled prophesies by outlined by Shaykh Ahmad.

As Baha'is we recognized what was revealed in our Writings.

- Art

[barefootgal9]

And it's interesting to note, that in the case of the Bab, He indicated that "He Who Arises" should be sought in 9, and 19 years. Baha'u'llah fulfilled both "dates," receiving His mission 9 years later and publicly announcing it and inauguerating His faith 19 years later.

So there is no fixed period, but each Manifestation provides some hint of how long it will be until the next appearance, sometimes very abstrusely, sometimes very exactly.

Seers and lesser prophets can arise at any time; but a Manifestation "destroys the world and calls into being a new creation" - He "releases an outpouring" of creative power, setting into motion historical forces that transform the human world.

[arielmessenger]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

arielmessenger -

You would be surprised at how common the experience is. I've been through it myself and I know others on this forum have, too. In fact, I'd love to see bob x post up some of his experiences of travelling the Middle East in the 1970s.

But claiming titles for the self IMO is a meaningless act. It is our actions in the span of our lives that define us, and it is on that basis that titles are awarded, rather than claimed.

Brian,

You should understand that a person in my position has no choice in the matter. If I say "No, I am not a prophet" I am lying because everything about my religious life revolves around my role of messenger of a new vision, actually several new visions that still are in the same spiritual lineage as my Canaanite-Hebrew forebearers. There is no one else to tell the world about the Biomystical interpretation of Yeshu-Jesus' sacrificial death. There is no one else to play the role of Elijah-John the Baptist announcing the return of the Spirit of Christ in Feminine form. There is no one else who is actively continuing the Johanine Gnostic exposure of Yahweh as a usurper god who never was God Most High. There is no one else who has been given the spiritual information that will lift Christianity out of the End Times fate that awaits almost all other traditional religious paths that do not lead to recognition and worship of the Holy One of Heaven & Earth.

You see, once the historical information is universally known among intellectuals the religious traditions such as Ba' hai even will lose tremendous spiritual authority because the founders of these traditional religions used mythologies as if they were actual historical events to base their teachings on, e.g., Paul using the myths of Israelite priests and scribes to base the authenticity of Yeshu-Jesus, Mohammad using the myths of Israelites and Pauline Christians to base the authenticity of his teachings, and Ba'hai too following suit with foundational doctrines that use Judeo-Christian-Muslim mythologies as spiritual authority. All this crashes with historical evidence showing these ancient myths to be that, myths. If they are recognized as myths then it is a different story but without that recognition the teachings of these Abrahamic faiths are going to conflict with historical reality as well as spiritual authority, e.g., Ba' hai being a religion of combined universal love and goodwill yet still under the Master syndrome that creates followers as spiritual children instead of individuals unique in themselves with their own unique relationships with the God of All. This too, is one of the reasons God has put me on point--to point to the Solitary Path that alone transcends the historical authoritarianism that seems to always accompany organized mass religions, an authoritarianism that slips far too easily into totalitarianism when coupled with political power.

[kkawohl]

Originally Posted by arielmessenger

Brian,

You should understand that a person in my position has no choice in the matter. If I say "No, I am not a prophet" I am lying because everything about my religious life revolves around my role of messenger of a new vision, actually several new visions that still are in the same spiritual lineage as my Canaanite-Hebrew forebearers.

IMHO, prophecy, physical revelations & visions, & God performing magic on earth are the results of superstitions & these beliefs have mostly been or should be eliminated in our modern societies. God is spirit & only interacts with our spirit.

IMHO, like myself, you should consider yourself a humble messenger. Messengers should not be elevated, or deified as Jesus was by many Christians.

Namaste,
Kurt

[kkawohl]

Originally Posted by arthra

Specific time periods are significant:

Each revelation also has fulfilled the prophesies of the previous ones, so in our view the specific time period given by Baha'u'llah as a thousand years before the next Manifestation of God appears is accepted by us. The Bab also provided prophetic clues when He prophesied regarding Him Whom God would make manifest and in our view the Bab Himself fulfilled prophesies by outlined by Shaykh Ahmad.

As Baha'is we recognized what was revealed in our Writings.

- Art

IMHO, people still have a tendency to want to see magical performances or prophecies from God when this actually is the mind's interpretation of the spirit's spiritual inteteraction with God. The mind's translation thereof is often inaccurate due to its clinging to subconscious superstitions or prior conditioning. God is not restricted be any time period for a spiritual interaction with man. It is at God's choosing.

Kurt

[arielmessenger]

Kurt, one of the reasons there aren't that many prophets running around at any given time is that anyone who entered the kind of mental state I did when I went through my three day religious conversion experience, comes away with Knowledge that this world is illusion, that it has been scripted from from the beginning and that each of our lives lives out Archetypal dramas that are given to us for our souls to learn moral lessons in preparation for the World Beyond. This experience of "reality" being illusionary makes no sense to anyone who hasn't experienced it yet the concept of the world as maya appears again and again in differing cultures. Even the Judeo-Christian tradition carries the idea:

Psalm 139:16

"Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them."

Illusion is the case yet reality is nonetheless very "real" in its temporal consequences on our lives and so, God works within the illusion of Creation manifesting the spiritual truths through singular men and women who God has brought into the Light. If all were brought into the Light the Light could not be seen for what it is-it would just be light illuminating darkness only when it's turned on. Who throws the switch for the Light? Visionaries, seers, prophets.

But I do agree with you, gone should be the days when visionaries, seers, prophets are idolized. They are messengers only and the Messages are the important thing. Myself, I make sure that my foibles as a human being are displayed in the large print of my gospel. We don't judge a recording by the quality of the tape recorder do we? Bliss and spiritual comfort are not what I am about as no one with an ounce of true spiritual consciousness who reads a daily newspaper cannot retreat into any nirvanic state while so many are so very desperate to just survive calamity.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by kkawohl

IMHO, people still have a tendency to want to see magical performances or prophecies from God when this actually is the mind's interpretation of the spirit's spiritual inteteraction with God. The mind's translation thereof is often inaccurate due to its clinging to subconscious superstitions or prior conditioning. God is not restricted be any time period for a spiritual interaction with man. It is at God's choosing.

Kurt

Well Kurt,

My feeling is that God is not restricted, but to fulfill His previous Revelations He has left signs and prophecies that are to be spiritually understood... It takes a great deal of humility and a seeking heart to understand these. These signs and prophecies are provided to us so we can appreciate the consistency and fulfillment of previous religions both ancient and more modern.

Abdul-Baha in a Tablet dated January 1920 wrote:

"Sixty years ago Baha'u'llah, even as the shining sun, shone in the firmament of Persia, and proclaimed that the world is wrapt in darkness and this darkness is fraught with disastrous results, and will lead to fearful strife. In
His prison city of Akka, He apostrophized in unmistakable terms the Emperor of Germany, declaring that a terrible war shall take place, and Berlin will break forth in lamentation and wailing. In like manner, whilst the wronged prisoner of the Sultan of Turkey in the citadel of Akka, He clearly and emphatically wrote him that Constantinople will fall a prey to grave disorder, in such wise that the women and children will raise their moaning cry. In brief, He addressed epistles to all the chief rulers and sovereigns of the world, and all that He foretold has been fulfilled. From His pen of glory flowed teachings for the prevention of war, and these have been scattered far and wide. "

Some may not appreciate that the Baha'i Faith also has as it's basis in the Writings a prophetic view of history and the future but in this regard it is not unlike previous dispensations.

- Art

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by kkawohl

IMHO, prophecy, physical revelations & visions, & God performing magic on earth are the results of superstitions & these beliefs have mostly been or should be eliminated in our modern societies. God is spirit & only interacts with our spirit.

Ah, but then you are talking about condemning a pivotal part of the human experience - because you disagree with it??

And if God is spirit and only interacts with our spirit, then what is the result? When god interacts with us is there truly no prophecy, revelation, or vision?

In which case in what manner do you say we perceive God? Only in synchronicity and intuition?

[arthra]

Ariel wrote:

"You see, once the historical information is universally known among intellectuals the religious traditions such as Ba' hai even will lose tremendous spiritual authority because the founders of these traditional religions used mythologies as if they were actual historical events to base their teachings on, e.g., Paul using the myths of Israelite priests and scribes to base the authenticity of Yeshu-Jesus, Mohammad using the myths of Israelites and Pauline Christians to base the authenticity of his teachings, and Ba'hai too following suit with foundational doctrines that use Judeo-Christian-Muslim mythologies as spiritual authority. All this crashes with historical evidence showing these ancient myths to be that, myths."

The Baha'i Writings do frequently use Biblical and Qur'anic references and I invite to explore them in an essay by Brent Poirier at

http://bahai-library.com/essays/iqan.bible.html

In time Ariel, it may be that you'll come to appreciate how Baha'is view the prophcies of past dispensation by reading the Baha'i Writings for yourself... Rather than losing "great spiritual authority" there is a great spiritual authenticity and relevance to be found therein.

- Art

[kkawohl]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

If God is spirit and only interacts with our spirit, then what is the result? When god interacts with us is there truly no prophecy, revelation, or vision?

In which case in what manner do you say we perceive God? Only in synchronicity and intuition?

The spirit is in the subconscious and often controls what one writes and thinks. The soul and spirit are often considered identical, though the soul has also been referred to as the vessel for the spirit. The only physical effect that we can derive from the Spirit of God is by way of us receiving inspirations and blessings. In order to accomplish this, lines of communication through righteous living, need to be established between our spirit and the Spirit of God during our lifetime in order for our soul to survive after our physical demise. Any soul or spirit, upon a person's physical death, that does not bond or is not transmitted by us and received by the Supreme Spirit ceases to exist.

We exist physically and with the spirit on the present plane with the negative and positive. Righteous living and meditation filter and cleanse the negative of the spirit. The soul is the encompassing vessel that carries the spirit to its destination upon the physical demise. The soul is also the data storage area in the subconscious and is not subject to emotions; it can however trigger physical reflexes and responses. When the spirit leaves its host (physical demise) it has to be received by and interlace with the spirit host or it ceases its existence; upon the bonding with the spirit host, the spirit continues eternally.

The spirit, when the mind is in mental stasis, can at times connect with the Supreme Spirit, as evidenced by messengers. (Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc.) The mind's ability to interpret this connection and messages is often deficient, hence we have the creation of various religions.

IMHO, everything in the universe follows the universal laws which separate the physical and the spiritual existence. Energy is power, vigor, liveliness, intensity. It is a measurable quantity, without reference to its nature or source. Energy, or life is a fundamental attribute and function of the universe. Our bodies build up and harness a minute amount of spiritual energy that is transferred into the spiritual dimension upon our death. Then this spiritual energy is limitless because it lacks resistance and this energy can assimilate as a unity or be separate and individual. It is this spiritual energy that is God. It is a composition of the spiritual intellect of the universe, of every soul that has passed from the physical universe into the spiritual universe. It can create a spiritual existence of beauty that is beyond the imagination…my spirit has experienced it.

When God interacts with us it is like a father interacting with a 2 year old child. Our mind has to translate what the spirit has assimilated. It is the knowledge of everything in the past, not the future. The future makes its own path & is not predetermined.

Namaste,
Kurt

[suanni]

What would happen when the next prophet is born? I maybe being cynical but I doubt that any major religion would recognise he/she. The next prophet could be a woman! Would the world recognise a new prophet? Again, I think most unlikely.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by suanni

What would happen when the next prophet is born? I maybe being cynical but I doubt that any major religion would recognise he/she. The next prophet could be a woman! Would the world recognise a new prophet? Again, I think most unlikely.

Well thanks for posting your question Suanni... I think a study of what occurred when the past Manifestations of God arose would be helpful and what trials occurred for them when They delared their mission... It's quite possible the next Manifestation could be a woman.... Hopefully the world will have matured in some respects in the next eight hundred years or so and be spiritually more prepared to recognize the new Message! It seems that each Prophet has prepared the foundations for the next and a greater unity would be called for.

We Baha'is sees the advancement of humanity through various stages of unity... unity of family, tribe, city, nation and today, the issue of world unity is perhaps most crucial for the continued survival of humanity.

I speculate that the issue facing humanity in the next eight hundred years after world unity is achieved maybe and I stress MAYBE an issue of interspecies unity and cooperation with another sentient race in the universe.

The Baha'i Writings stress that humanity or sentient life is a final product or flower of the universe and with implied life on other worlds. So this could be the next step...

- Art

[arielmessenger]

Suanni;
"What would happen when the next prophet is born? I maybe being cynical but I doubt that any major religion would recognise he/she. The next prophet could be a woman! Would the world recognise a new prophet? Again, I think most unlikely."

Suanni, I am a prophet of God. Please go to www.biomystic.org and the to Book I, Biomystical Christianity. This is the work of a modern prophet. I would ask you when you have read enough of BC to get a basic understanding of it, if you recognize me as a prophet. So far, very few do as I live out the reality of "a prophet is not without honor save in his own village". Make that family, community, nation and world, alas..

-Arielmessenger

[suanni]

I have taken a quick look at the site. I do mean quick cos I'm up to my eyes decorating. I've also taken a quick look through book I and there's a great deal there that I agree on.
I will read through it fully at a later date.