When was Jesus born?

Quahom1 · 03-29-2005, 08:27 AM

Stupid question? Not really. Jesus wasn't born on 24/25 December 0000. First off the weather patterns would be all wrong. Second, the shepards would not have been keeping their sheep as described, Third, there is no holiday (that I know of) that would have maxed out the local hotels/motels/inns in Bethelehem, at the end of December.

Also Jesus said He was the Alpha and Omega (and the Bible seems to have double meanings for every thing in it).

We also know that the birth of Jesus was not really celebrated until the missionaries mixed with the "pagans" in the north, and wanted to replace their Winterfest with Christian fest (so to speak). Same with Easter, by the way...

Not that I knock Christmas (I love it). But we decided to celibrate Jesus' birth then, but that was not when He was born...

Me thinks, Jesus was born in March. I have my reasons, but I'd like to hear what you think...

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Postmaster · 03-29-2005, 11:47 AM

I think the answer/s to your question/s maybe answered by the Vatican.. They seem to have organised the dates we have today? Would you believe Dionysus, Osiris and Hercules were also born on the 25th of December? Maybe it was a coincidence and more sincere; or the humans meant it like that?

The Christian Orthodox Church celebrates Christmas and Easter at different dates. Someone has to be wrong? Maybe both...

My answer to all this is, it really doesn't matter... As long as we celebrate.

Because know one told us when he was born!

It was Gods will to kill off barbaric Paganism, of course it was a battle with the free will of man.

Faithfulservant · 03-29-2005, 05:58 PM

You know.. Ive never been curious about when Jesus was born which I find extremely odd since I want to know everything else :P Ive always been content with Christmas Day.

didymus · 03-29-2005, 06:32 PM

I have heard different theories; anywhere from 8bc-3bc. March is also the month believed to be when he was born.

Quahom1 · 03-29-2005, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

You know.. Ive never been curious about when Jesus was born which I find extremely odd since I want to know everything else :P Ive always been content with Christmas Day.

Perhaps you're right Faithful. I am however, ever curious. Postmaster celebrates Christmas on the 5th of January (I presume), as do Russian Orthodox Christians.

That is older than the Christmas we celebrate. Do you see my point?

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Postmaster · 03-29-2005, 07:05 PM

Yep, well actually, the Greek people in Cyprus (not sure mainland Greece) still celebrate on the 25th of December, Greek Cypriots were under Vatican rule and took on many ways of the Italians for a bit which would include the Roman church 25th celebrations. However the Greek Orthodox Church in Cyprus celebrates on the official Orthodox date and actually many traditional people too. This are some of the arguments the Greeks and Romans had before the 2 churches split. I think the Orthodox were aware that the Romans had this idea of there past, 25th is the birth of many other pagan and multi God figures. I believe Christ was born after December. And the more west you go, the more they destroy the original Church. Orthodox in Greek mean "The right way"

Catholic means "never"

Dor · 03-29-2005, 07:44 PM

Well more food for thought for the curious:

If Jesus Christ weren't born on Dec. 25, does the Bible indicate when He was born? The biblical accounts point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus' birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

Since Elizabeth (John's mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke 1:24-36), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born.
24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying, 25 Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men. 26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. 36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5). 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year (The Companion Bible, 1974, Appendix 179, p. 200).

It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife, Elizabeth, would have a child (Luke 1:8-13).8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course, 9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord. 10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense. 11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (verses 23-24).23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house. 24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,

Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.

Quahom1 · 03-29-2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Well more food for thought for the curious:

If Jesus Christ weren't born on Dec. 25, does the Bible indicate when He was born? The biblical accounts point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus' birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

Since Elizabeth (John's mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke 1:24-36), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born.
24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying, 25 Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men. 26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. 36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5). 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year (The Companion Bible, 1974, Appendix 179, p. 200).

It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife, Elizabeth, would have a child (Luke 1:8-13).8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course, 9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord. 10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense. 11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (verses 23-24).23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house. 24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,

Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.

Try looking at it again...you might find it six months before you thought.

But then what do I know?

BTW congrats!

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Dor · 03-29-2005, 08:08 PM

What are you seeing that Im missing? Quit beating around the bush we've all been patient.

Quahom1 · 03-29-2005, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

What are you seeing that Im missing? Quit beating around the bush we've all been patient.

It seems that Jesus was born during the feast of the Tabernacle (September/October).

Since Jesus was conceived six months after John the Baptist, and we have established a likely date for John's birth, we need only move six months farther down the Jewish calendar to arrive at a likely date for the birth of Jesus. From the 15th day of the 1st month, Nisan, we go to the 15th day of the 7th month, Tishri. And what do we find on that date? It is the festival of Tabernacles! The 15th day of Tishri begins the third and last festival of the year to which all the men of Israel were to gather in Jerusalem for Temple services. Lev 23:34
In the first 200 years of Christian history, no mention is made of the calendar date of Jesus' birth. Not until the year 336 do we find the first mention of a celebration of His birth.

Why this omission? In the case of the Church fathers, the reason is that, during the three centuries after Christ's life on earth, the event considered most worthy of commemoration was the date of His death. In comparison, the date of His birth was considered insignificant. As the Encyclopedia Americana explains, "Christmas... was, according to many authorities, not celebrated in the first centuries of the Christian church, as the Christian usage in general was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons rather than their birth..." (1944 edition, "Christmas").

So it is September/October. For some reason I thought March/ April...

And what do you mean beating around the bush? I posted this question less than 12 hours ago. Have a heart will you?

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Faithfulservant · 03-29-2005, 08:34 PM

didymus · 03-29-2005, 09:30 PM

They may have considered his resurrection more important but his birth was for sure close second. enough so that they spoke of his being born of a virgin.

Quahom1 · 03-29-2005, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by didymus

They may have considered his resurrection more important but his birth was for sure close second. enough so that they spoke of his being born of a virgin.

No, Did, I just tickled the counter part of one, and ticked off the other...it's ok. I'm very good at that.

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didymus · 03-29-2005, 09:44 PM

I don't follow ya, what did you mean by that?

Bandit · 03-30-2005, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Try looking at it again...you might find it six months before you thought.

But then what do I know?

BTW congrats!

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there might be enough in there to figure the right month

. I have never even thought to study it before but I know it is not on 12/25.