Where is Christanity Headed?

[Conscience]

I don't believe any religion leads to God.

Me either. In fact, I believe no religion lead to God.

I believe people sincerely seeking for God will find Him, because He is right there for everybody, just waiting for them to turn towards Him.

I agree! And, as the bible says, for those persons that sincerly seek, God will show them his Son, the one that offers Salvation. God's work is full proof, his laws written on our hearts are there to show us that, by his (God's) standards, we're not good people. If we see that we guilty of sin, and truely seek God, we will find Jesus.

I believe that God is infinite and we are finite, so we express our experience of God in ways that fit with our cultural, linguistic, and historical context. But God is God, however you describe Him.

Definitly!

Look at us agreeing again. This is so cool!

[path_of_one]

I do have to add, though, that I do not think the purpose of the Law being written on our hearts is to make us recognize we are not good people. We have really different views about how God interacts with people from what I've surmised. You believe God is separated from us by sin (until one becomes born-again), whereas I do not believe that. So why do I think the Law is written on our hearts?

I think it is there for us to be called to love God and love others (the essence of the Law, a la Jesus). Of course if we aren't completely egoistic we do recognize that we are imperfect, but that doesn't mean we can't be righteous. The Bible pointed out quite a few righteous people in the OT, and Joseph was called a "good" and "righteous" man (Lk 23:50). I think we have both the capacity for good and for evil, and the Law is there to cause us to want to turn toward God. The Law teaches us love, as well as humility.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Conscience

I believe its headed for a more "loving" and more "tolerant" version of the truth. With this new version of Christanity, many religions will be considered equal, and just another road to the same God. But, is the new version of Christanity correct, or just the fulfillment of what will occure in the endtimes? The following is an short report that I got from prophecyfulfilled.com Enjoy:

http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/ben..._enforcer.html

Benedict the Enforcer

What Ratzinger believes about salvation:

MAXINE MCKEW: Would Pope Benedict take the view that non-believers are damned?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: No, certainly not, certainly not. Salvation is open to all good people. Our God is a god of love and infinite mercy. The only person who might be damned are those who resolutely refuse to turn to towards the light, towards love, who lock them up obstinately in hate. My prayer and my hope is that very, very few will be damned Read it here.

What the Bible teaches:

If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life ( 1 John 5: 9-12 New American Standard Bible).

And four years later....

[BlaznFattyz]

while there will always be those who look towards jesus as their lord god and saviour, i believe christianity in general is heading towards apostasy and universalism.

[path_of_one]

According to the recent PEW reports, it seems to be headed toward a broad schism between fundamentalists and universalists. What's interesting to me is that neither position is very old, traditional, or conservative, though universalism is, as I understand the history of the church, an older position. The conservative/traditional churches in mainline Protestantism, such as the Lutherans and Anglicans, are losing members to both sides, and struggling with internal debates that mirror the broader two-camp whole.

I find it sad, but only natural given human tendencies toward exclusivity and the use of religion in politics.

I'd prefer that we return to the more traditional position of careful scriptural study, including historical and linguistic contextual study, and determination to bind together in an effort to learn from each other rather than insulating ourselves. But it is a pipe dream because, quite frankly, Americans are not very interested in serious scholarly study of almost anything. We are a nation of sound-bite consumers who want some other person to interpret things for us and give us the 30-second briefing.

Eh, aside from all that, you can see diversity and debate within Christianity from the beginning, with various sides calling each other heretics. So, I guess although the modern variation on this is relatively new, the underlying process is traditional and in that we've retained some flavor of what Christianity has always encompassed, however unflattering it may be.

My hope is that while Christianity as a religion and a political tool has a long history of problems, Christ's teachings are still as sound as they ever were, and people still come into relationship with Christ and are individually transformed.

[wil]

These days when we have the technology, time and ability to look at the history...history of the stories/books, history of the decisions to put the books together, histories of the scribal additions and modifications as well as the intentional mistranslations we have a wonderful opportunity at our feet.

And there are those that are out there doing the scholarly work...but they have agendas. The ones that just want to look and decipher and let the cards fall where they may are called liberal heretics, biblical critique is opposed by apologetics.

We can't allow anyone to come to a conclusion or posit a thesis that is contrary to our tradition as we have such a lack mentality that our tradition could die on the vine. ie while we cry let Chrysler or AIG go bankrupt if that is what it takes...we want our religion to get a bailout despite the fact that they've been cooking the books for a thousand years.

I agree Poo, that there is an amazing amount of content in Jesus words. I agree with the fundies that Christ is lord and saviour, that I am saved by the teachings. We just have a difference as to how that occurs.

[Marsh]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Those of us with half a brain don't exclude anyone. See we don't make the decisions about who Peter opens the gates to and who he doesn't. Because...that is arrogant, and ignorant of what the Bible says.

All, Christianity ever said, was if one follows Jesus (accepts Him as savior, in truth), then one bypasses final judgement (read that as book of life or death). Quite a simple statement actually. Still going to be judged on the fruits of your labor as a saved "Christian", but it has nothing to do with hell, damnation, forever away from God...

Yeeshhh, it's a simple declaration and promise.

Well said, Q.

Um, Christianity is headed exactly where the Bible said it was headed. There are seven churches described in chapters 2 & 3 of Revelation, and they are there for a reason. We are and will remain divided, and for exactly the reason that Q just pointed out: because there are those among us who just can't keep it simple.

[path_of_one]

We need to put aside the differences and create the KISS church (Keep It Simple Stupid).

I'm curious, Marsh- what are the 7 churches? Because there are a lot more than 7 so far as I can tell... Seems like every chance people get, they schism and create a new denomination.

[ciberpy]

Has anyone mentioned the Tower of Babel? The tower has been built many times.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by ciberpy

Has anyone mentioned the Tower of Babel? The tower has been built many times.

Yeah, but the Tower of Babel was built by those who were united. By ourselves, that is the realm of Christianity, I see nothing in the horizon to suggest that we are going to get together and just get along.

We can even build it on an interfaith forum.

[Dream]

I partly understand what you mean, Cyberpi.

The fundamentalist situation will change soon, though perhaps I am a little biased towards that. I think Christianity here in the Bible belt is headed towards rapid and possibly hurricane forces of change in the next maybe 8 years or less. Like Poo said, the fundies & unies are opposites coming into close proximity. A million rejected interactions are taking place over here, until a stable crystal seed is formed from one of the collisions. I'm guessing it will incorporate an enhanced appreciation for History and parables. Religious groups that share an overlapping edge with the fundies, watch out; as change in one group may impact neighbors.

[nativeastral]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

while there will always be those who look towards jesus as their lord god and saviour, i believe christianity in general is heading towards apostasy and universalism.

an exemplar of the founder then?!

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

We need to put aside the differences and create the KISS church (Keep It Simple Stupid).

The question, though is, which Simplicity are you talking about? We don't all agree on the definition of this "Simplicity." Your concept is simple from your perspective simply because of your personal life experiences and your present life situation. But to get someone else to accept your "Simplicity" you have to get them to abandon their perspective, experience and present life situation and come over to where you are standing. Your views are complicated from where they are standing.

Originally Posted by path_of_one

I'm curious, Marsh- what are the 7 churches? Because there are a lot more than 7 so far as I can tell... Seems like every chance people get, they schism and create a new denomination.

The Seven Churches are mentioned in Revelation. It's a prophecy about the kinds of churches that you will find sequentially throughout Christianity's history. It's not about denominations.

Originally Posted by ciberpy

Has anyone mentioned the Tower of Babel? The tower has been built many times.

Fundamentalists like building towers to heaven. Their faith is not in Christ, but in the tower itself.

Originally Posted by Dream

Like Poo said, the fundies & unies are opposites coming into close proximity.

The fundies and "universalists," IMAO, are either demagogues or slaves of demagogues who cling to popular ideas.

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

i believe christianity in general is heading towards apostasy and universalism.

But what is this apostasy? Universalism? Are you pointing fingers here? Does it desecrate Christianity to be more accepting?

Am I desecrating Christianity by being more accepting? Here I am assuming that by universalism you imply inclusivism.

Well, let me assure you of this. I am by no means an inclusivist but nor am I an exclusivist. My stance towards other's beliefs is not subject to the laws of mathematical relativity. More hard does not mean less soft. More soft does not mean less hard. It's something completely different.

I put things in social and political context. The fundamentalists are so bent on getting people to conform to their ideology and their way of thinking that whoever gives in to their fundamentalist ideology ends up being just a robot without any real faith. They condemn people who don't, can't or refuse to conform and you become just like them. Universalists are too afraid to draw up boundaries for fear of alienating people. When taken to extremes, neither comes from good judgment or prudence.

My personal belief is that there should be an etiquette. One must decide what is good for both the people and the religion. This is what I call "true orthodoxy." This is what I consider to be the position that is most likely to be correct. Fundamentalists and universalists place too much emphasis on one or the other.

What is good for both the people and the religion is orthodoxy. Anything else leads either to terror, arrogance, prejudice and divisiveness or laziness and complacency.

I am not saying this become I am soft and decadent. You will find words of a similar nature in the New Testament itself. I am seeking merely to speak in the same Spirit.

[nativeastral]

the problem with christianity is its orthodoxy. you'll find in judaism/islam emphasis on orthopraxy, leaving one's inner beliefs/revelations more of a private 'affair'.

[Basstian]

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD Isaiah 66:23

Bible is a fun book. It keeps telling you the ending from the beginning and yet we all wonder after reading it ...


" Let the Mystery Be " Iris DeMent great song you-tube it



Basstian