Which Religoin is right?

[InLove]

It's a defense mechanism.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by InLove

It's a defense mechanism.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by wil

I've been contemplating this one since I read it. I never thought of our negativity being washed away so simply. While I feel that is an interpretation of Jesus's message, salvation, washing away our sins thru his sacrifice...that is also the part I've had issues buying into. That with a confession and words my deeds just disappear, and at the same time, allow me to go on as usual knowing I'll be taken care of again...and again.

Like the guy who has a heart attack, gets a bypass and doesn't change his diet, knowing science will just fix him again.

I've been more in tune to the Paul "I die daily", as I grow, I learn and let go of the negativity, let go of the old me, let go of that sinful way (one step at a time, can't get rid of them all now, I'm still quite married to some of them)

So I see it as my role, to rid myself of those things that I wish to cease to exist. And as things crop up in my life, they are often there to reidentify the areas I need to work on.

While I am referring to my struggles in the vien of Christianity as it is where I reside, I'd love to hear others comments from their perspectives.

Exactly, wil. that is the process in God conforming us into the image of Christ. Deny self, and take up the cross. That cross is heavy sometimes and hard work. But the longer we carry it, the easier it becomes.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Originally Posted by Dondi

That is a profund statement. Maybe you've hit on an element of truth, in a manner of speaking. I don't think it is so much that parts of us will cease to exist as it is that those parts will be so enraptured by His Love that they will finally accept that Love.

How much easier that will become, in whatever life awaits us beyond, depends on how much we allow that process to happen in this life. I believe there will definitely be some kind of purging of our soul.

How beautiful. Thank you, both of you, and thank you, wil, for your thoughts in the OP. These are things that have troubled me, too, and I have been given much food for thought in this thread.
Dondi, I like the quote from Harold Storm which you mentioned in another thread:
"The best religion is the religion which brings you closest to God."

Oh, and InLove, I'm so very glad you are still around to share your thoughts with us.

[InLove]

Originally Posted by Dondi

I don't think it is so much that parts of us will cease to exist as it is that those parts will be so enraptured by His Love that they will finally accept that Love.

Dondi, this is even more beautiful. Thank you. Nothing eclectic about it. Only inclusive. There is something about including all that reminds me of this great Love that I know.

lunamoth--thank you for your post. I think you may know how much it means to me right now. The words I have at my command presently are not enough.

Popeye--blessings and thanks to you. I read your posts all the time--can't say that I understand all of them yet, but I understand enough.

Snoopy, flow--you know without a doubt that we shall talk in depth some more, and then some more, and then some more. And over and over again.

wil--you know.

Angel--what can I say? I like you even if someone supposes that I am not supposed to. Make that "love you".

Scarlet--I am just so glad to see you still around here. You were one of my very first friends here. Thank you. I hope you always sing.

Well, I have gotten quite sentimental here. Good for me, that's what I say!

I keep trying to think of something more "grounded", more intellectual, more...whatever it is that seems to press at us all. But I just keep coming up with Love.

Imagine that.

InPeace,
InLove

[Matt Langley]

Some very interesting thoughts and ideas posed in this thread. I guess I'm going to be the one going against the flow and say I disagree lol... ahh well In any case I value the conjecture and the thoughts even if my further words don't relate that well.

If Jesus is not your lord and saviour you are going to hell. I never bought it. Now someone placed the thought that giving your sins to Jesus, allows you the get out of hell card despite your previous actions.

This thought leads to a divide, that the latest and greatest prophet is bringing us the latest and greatest word/message, and that somehow those in the older schools are lesser, or left behind because of that (Adam 1 put us to sleep, Adam 2 woke us up)

I agree with some ideas, the Old Testament (all the sources that make it up) is just as valid as the New Testament in my mind.

I mean if we take out the part where God created the world and Adam (and Eve) sinned then we wouldn't need the part where God fufills his promise and brings redemption to man.


Adam 1 (and Eve) sinned. We now pay the consequence of this sin, death. We do not inherit the sin, though just like reality we pay the consequence. Just like a crack baby pays the consequence for it's mothers drug usage. Such is the world and reality, things are not fair.

Now the remedy this problem God promised us a savior (Jesus of Nazareth). Jesus came and paid the price for our sins. God and Jesus (the trinity) now have paid for our sins, we simply must ask forgiveness for them and we are given it.

To me Jesus was not just a prophet. There is just Adam 1 and 2. The bible talks of Adam bringing sin into us (as well as the consequence, death) and that God would send another to remedy that, Jesus. Scripture seems very clear to me on this, then again we all have our own views.

[Cage]

Nice thread!


Love,

[wil]

Namaste Matt,

And this is truly what it is all about. Finding the path that is right for you, and accepting that others are traveling the path that is right for them.

Dauer in another thread innumerated the reasons he does not believe Jesus to be the messiah as described in his scriptures. And his path is as valid as ours.

Yesterday I received in my mail a letter from Walter Cronkite on the need for interfaith studies and respect. Basically saying for decades as a newscaster he had to keep his personal opinions personal, but now felt required to speak out. That we will tear ourselves apart if we focus on differences...

We are a little over a month away to the Season for Non-violence. I look to expand awareness of this again this year. All so wonderful life is.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Matt,

And this is truly what it is all about. Finding the path that is right for you, and accepting that others are traveling the path that is right for them.

Dauer in another thread innumerated the reasons he does not believe Jesus to be the messiah as described in his scriptures. And his path is as valid as ours.

Yesterday I received in my mail a letter from Walter Cronkite on the need for interfaith studies and respect. Basically saying for decades as a newscaster he had to keep his personal opinions personal, but now felt required to speak out. That we will tear ourselves apart if we focus on differences...

We are a little over a month away to the Season for Non-violence. I look to expand awareness of this again this year. All so wonderful life is.

Wil,

Curious as to what Walter Cronkite believes. Did he mention anything about his beliefs at all?

[Matt Langley]

Finding the path that is right for you, and accepting that others are traveling the path that is right for them.

And his path is as valid as ours.

In another thread you said this to me:

Objective and polite...could be a dangerous combination...

lol very true. In this exact situation is when such a statement is even more true. I truly believe the truth and reality is objective. This means that those first two quotes of yours I don't necessarily agree with.

To me I see the path in life just like any other path. Say we are all heading up a mountain with many possible paths. Some will be dead ends, some will be treacherous and lead to deaths. Then there are a couple paths that lead to the top, the same point, safely, even possibly a single full path when it comes down to the highest parts of the mountain.

If I have fore knoweldge given to me that a certain path is the only safe path. Now if I see someone go down a path I know to be treacherous or a dead end then how can I believe that path is a valid one? Now this doesn't mean I discriminate, force my beliefs on them, tie their arms up and drag them up the mountain my way lol. In fact it may be they need to see that dead end for themselves... or they may need to nearly reach that treacherous part in which they face death and I can only hope and pray they survive so they can return and start again. Though what sort of person would I be if I didn't try to tell them the safe path. If I could save a single person then it's worth the effort every single time.

So to me everyone doesn't need to find their right path... at least the final path. In my mind everyone needs to find their right path to end up on the right path

If I truly believe what Jesus said while he was on our planet, which I do, then I have to believe this. He said he was the only way to God. So if I believe him then there is no other way. If I say I believe Jesus and don't accept this then I would be lying to myself and others.

Dauer in another thread innumerated the reasons he does not believe Jesus to be the messiah as described in his scriptures.

True... Though I think in the end you need to use reason and rational thought on what "scriptures" we accept as valid and true. We also need to do the same on interpreting what they mean.

I have spent a lot of time studying the validity of the scriptures I place my belief in. It is not a blind faith, it a very founded faith. I also believe others will realize the same if they were to do the same research I have (and others before me have).

Anyone can create their own "scriptures" that are invalid and innaccurate. Anyone can claim to interpret them in a new way without using their mind.

Joseph Smith did this exact same thing. He fooled many people into believing whole new interpretations of the Bible as well as a whole new set of "scriptures". A piece of his "translation" using egpytian papyrus has been proven completely incorrect. We have the original he used with a letter from his wife that confirms it is authentic. Modern egypt translators say Joseph Smith had no translation skill based on this.

Would you say if someone chose that path it would be a valid path? Now I would say it could be valid in leading them to realize the proper path, though in the end I could never say that path is valid. Lies and deceit surround religion like a swarm of bees on honey. I believe there is a true path and many false paths. Though I do respect other peoples beliefs, even if I don't think they sometimes are even valid for them.

That we will tear ourselves apart if we focus on differences...

But aren't our differences the very thing that makes us interesting. I mean if we had all the exact same religious views we wouldn't be here chatting about them.

[Cage]

If Jesus is the way, the truth, the light, and none come to the father but by him, then we must embrace his Spirit also. I believe those who embrace the Spirit w/o embracing the man are still on a path towards the great destination. Many paths can lead to God, yet there are highways within each that lead to destruction. Almost every major religion values Love, which is the same spirit Jesus came in. Jesus was the ultimate manifestation of that Spirit, and I believe any who walk in that Spirit can find thier way to salvation; even w/o the knowledge, or belief in the flesh man Jesus.

It is not about intellectual knowledge, or tradition, or the man, but about the heart, and Spirit of God therein. This was the message of Christ, imo...


Love,

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Matt Langley

I mean if we had all the exact same religious views we wouldn't be here chatting about them.

Hi,

Very true and interesting it is too!

Unfortunately I think it is also true that if we had all the exact same religious views some of us around the world wouldn't be killing people because of our intolerance of their differing views.

s.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Unfortunately I think it is also true that if we had all the exact same religious views some of us around the world wouldn't be killing people because of our intolerance of their differing views.

Can you think of the death and distruction if it were required of us to come to a conclusion on one?

Originally Posted by Matt

If I have fore knoweldge given to me that a certain path is the only safe path. Now if I see someone go down a path I know to be treacherous or a dead end then how can I believe that path is a valid one?

I think dead ends have value.

I think I nor anyone else can see the whole mountain.

I've yet to meet anyone who has been to the top, but many who feel they know what the top is and that there path is the one to get them to the top.

So I know hundreds of people. Many of which swear they are on the right path, they KNOW it is the right path, they KNOW others are on the wrong path.

What resonates with me is that it is the being on the path that has value, making the attempt to climb the mountain, and that each path has value. And some folks are better suited for particular paths.

And yes some paths may have some destructive tendencies, I'd warn everyone not to drink the koolaid.

As for your knowledge that your path is correct, I am ok with that.


As for the Mormon's and their path, if we were to take the deception or misapplied thoughts of the leaders as criteria to throw out everything, there isn't a theology that could stand. Interesting how many folks take to deriding the Mormon's for this or that. But again I'd suggest spending some time studying with them and finding out exactly what they do believe and how they act toward others. I do know if you are into Geneology, you'll be playing in thier vaults someday and thanking G-d for their efforts in this venue. I also know you'll find in innordinate number of them in our State Department...as they are sought out for recruitment into this branch of our Government. Their upbringing makes them particularly well suited for this line of work. Who knows how many more things we have to be thankful for in this regard to the means and methods of Mr. Smith.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Cage

If Jesus is the way, the truth, the light, and none come to the father but by him, then we must embrace his Spirit also. I believe those who embrace the Spirit w/o embracing the man are still on a path towards the great destination. Many paths can lead to God, yet there are highways within each that lead to destruction. Almost every major religion values Love, which is the same spirit Jesus came in. Jesus was the ultimate manifestation of that Spirit, and I believe any who walk in that Spirit can find thier way to salvation; even w/o the knowledge, or belief in the flesh man Jesus.

It is not about intellectual knowledge, or tradition, or the man, but about the heart, and Spirit of God therein. This was the message of Christ, imo...


Love,

I'm with you on this Cage. I believe that the grace of God is available to all who seek Him.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by wil

Can you think of the death and distruction if it were required of us to come to a conclusion on one?

Hi,

Unfortunately I think I can. Maybe a preferable notion is that we are all required simply to be tolerant (of the paths of others).

s.