Who Are They?

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Could the verses about blood not be read as "do not eat/drink blood" (ie cook your meat)? Mee (who I believe is Chrstian?)

a lot has to do with setting apart the chosen people based on god's laws, which the messiah would be born under. it also has to do with god speaking to people in the context of what was going on at the time. there were pagan rituals where people drank blood. so one way god set his chosen people apart from pagans was for them not to drink blood, among other practices. one of the reasons behind it are that god uses blood for his special purposes that deal with life and atonement of sins and does not want it to be mixed with pagan rituals.

strictly for informational purposes: mainstream christianity does not consider jw's as christian, but rather a cult.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

So God did a really crap job in the first place and then changed the rules to make things easier.

Maybe we are made in his image after all.

Think you could do better?

Maybe we are the screw ups. That's why demons laugh and angels weep. We think we are God...

v/r

Q

[greymare]

I am a bit confused reading this thread. but here is wot I got. Moses wrote the book of Genesis? ((mmmmm, now thats an independant souce!!!) Dont drink blood (no problem). I cook my meat well done. and am I the only one that thinks Blayzn Fatz picture is just a little bit rude. ( or am I haluSINating) lol love the Grey

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Think you could do better?

Maybe we are the screw ups. That's why demons laugh and angels weep. We think we are God...

v/r

Q

το αντίθετο Q!! Some don't merely think....

Tao

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Thanks Pico but now I am more confused than ever. So JW's believe in the old law but not the new law that abrogates the old? Mee (who I believe is Chrstian?) also says that Christians must avoid blood, which also seems to ignore the newer law? Hmmm, I might try to play around with the theory of relativity instead, it's much easier to understand.

Could the verses about blood not be read as "do not eat/drink blood" (ie cook your meat)?

no.... no no no....... no.
*bangs head agaisnt desk.*

lol....

1. JW's are christans.
2. Mee is a JW and a christian. :P
3. JW's do not ignore new laws, they acknowledge any law that god has given that is "active" and applies to them.


While you are talking aboot acts have a little look MW at Acts 15:28-29 and Acts 21:25


Why do people do it... ;/

Chris·tian /ˈkrɪstʃən/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kris-chuhn]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1.of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith.
2.of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ: Spain is a Christian country. 7.a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity. 8.a person who exemplifies in his or her life the teachings of Christ: He died like a true Christian.

That is exactly what JW's are doing.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Thanks Pico but now I am more confused than ever. So JW's believe in the old law but not the new law that abrogates the old? Mee (who I believe is Chrstian?) also says that Christians must avoid blood, which also seems to ignore the newer law? Hmmm, I might try to play around with the theory of relativity instead, it's much easier to understand.

Could the verses about blood not be read as "do not eat/drink blood" (ie cook your meat)?

Jehovahs witnesses know that Jesus put an end to the old law , and Jesus brought in a new covenent, and that was to love God and neighbor ,but as we can see , when the older men were disputing about circumcision, there was a bit of dispute as to if christians had to get it done or not . and when the older men got togeather with the HOLYSPIRIT , they came back from the disscussion with these NESSESARY THINGS that still had to be observed .
For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!"acts 15;29-28...........this law about blood goes back to Noahs day , and is still binding for christians . notice it mentions abstaining from blood AND from things strangled (not bled)so its not just about eating unbled meat , it is about abstaining from blood .
Jesus said that the whole Law hung upon the two commandments, to love God and to love one’s neighbor. (Mt 22:35-40) loving God means we are inline with his thinking , and abstaining from blood is still binding on christians

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

So God did a really crap job in the first place and then changed the rules to make things easier.

Maybe we are made in his image after all.

There's a theory . . . that God gave us rules and laws on purpose to show their limitations -- that they could never possibly represent our true attitudes all the time. What came before was much like an educational lesson that served to prepare pupils for the next level. The Gospel was meant to be a paradigm shift to a more free-thinking, down-to-earth, naturalist attitude, a liberation from restrictive dogma -- from a highly structured religion to a religion with no essential structure.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

There's a theory . . . that God gave us rules and laws on purpose to show their limitations -- that they could never possibly represent our true attitudes all the time. What came before was much like an educational lesson that served to prepare pupils for the next level. The Gospel was meant to be a paradigm shift to a more free-thinking, down-to-earth, naturalist attitude, a liberation from restrictive dogma -- from a highly structured religion to a religion with no essential structure.

But the real purpose of the Law was, as stated by the apostle Paul, "to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive." It was a "tutor leading to Christ." It pointed to Christ as the objective aimed at ("Christ is the end of the Law"). It revealed that all humans, including the Jews, are under sin and that life cannot be obtained by "works of law." (Ga 3:19-24; Ro 3:20; 10:4) It was "spiritual," from God, and "holy." (Ro 7:12, 14) At Ephesians 2:15 it is called "the Law of commandments consisting in decrees." It was a standard of perfection, marking the one who could keep it as perfect, worthy of life. (Le 18:5; Ga 3:12) Since imperfect humans could not keep the Law, it showed that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Ro 3:23) Only Jesus Christ kept it blamelessly.—Joh 8:46; Heb 7:26.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

There's a theory . . . that God gave us rules and laws on purpose to show their limitations -- that they could never possibly represent our true attitudes all the time. What came before was much like an educational lesson that served to prepare pupils for the next level. The Gospel was meant to be a paradigm shift to a more free-thinking, down-to-earth, naturalist attitude, a liberation from restrictive dogma -- from a highly structured religion to a religion with no essential structure.

Well then he clearly failed twice

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Well then he clearly failed twice

Maybe it's just that we're still in the process of graduating. We keep failing and don't progress fast enough. Each new generation brings in a bunch of new, naive people and the process starts all over again. They re-learn what we discovered in life and make the same mistakes as we did. Not necessarily a case of a bad teacher. Bad students. We're slow learners because we copy others instead of thinking for ourselves. It's no wonder we fail the test/exam so often.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

a lot has to do with setting apart the chosen people based on god's laws, which the messiah would be born under. it also has to do with god speaking to people in the context of what was going on at the time. there were pagan rituals where people drank blood. so one way god set his chosen people apart from pagans was for them not to drink blood, among other practices. one of the reasons behind it are that god uses blood for his special purposes that deal with life and atonement of sins and does not want it to be mixed with pagan rituals.

strictly for informational purposes: mainstream christianity does not consider jw's as christian, but rather a cult.

Thank you Blazn, I think I am getting the hang of it, albeit slowly.

I can understand that G-d doesn't want us to use blood for rituals or drink it, I am just having a problem seeing how it refers to a medical practice, developed so recently.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

no.... no no no....... no.
*bangs head agaisnt desk.* lol....

Now you understand why my Latin teacher used to throw the board rubber at me so often. For an intelligent woman I just fail to 'get it' sometimes.

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

2. Mee is a JW and a christian. :P

My sincere apologies Mee, I didn't realise you are JW.

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

3. JW's do not ignore new laws, they acknowledge any law that god has given that is "active" and applies to them.

Sorry you will have to give me a timeline. So did Peter receive his message from G-d (that nothing was unclean) before or after the verses about blood?

Maybe I should just forget this and simply accept that JW's don't believe in using blood for anything other than pumping around the body it was created in?!

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

While you are talking aboot acts have a little look MW at Acts 15:28-29 and Acts 21:25

I am so sorry but these verses just do not seem specific. My gut tells me they are referring to a forgotten practice that was seen as the norm then but we know that wasn't transfusion and I have never read anything about early Christians drinking blood (and you can be sure if there was the Muslim sites would have mentioned it by now). I can certainly see where JW's get the idea from, having looked at the verses but it just feels that there is something missing from the picture - sorry, just my view.

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

...it just feels that there is something missing from the picture - sorry, just my view.

if a loved one was about to die and needed blood to live, it would simply be a question of saving your fellow man or allowing them to die. however, i know for a fact, god wishes us to choose life and take care of each other. love comes first, everything else has to give into it if necessary. i think that may be the missing part.

[Pico]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Thank you Blazn, I think I am getting the hang of it, albeit slowly.

I can understand that G-d doesn't want us to use blood for rituals or drink it, I am just having a problem seeing how it refers to a medical practice, developed so recently.

One thing about interpreting scripture that causes a lot of confusion in people is to understand who the book was written to/for, who it was written by, and the context of the society and the times.

As BlaznFattyz said, the context had nothign to do with blood transfusions.

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

if a loved one was about to die and needed blood to live, it would simply be a question of saving your fellow man or allowing them to die. however, i know for a fact, god wishes us to choose life and take care of each other. love comes first, everything else has to give into it if necessary. i think that may be the missing part.

Its not a case of allowing a loved one to go without medical help ,it is a case of having all help available , exept one aspect, and that is Gods law on blood, many people have been told that they will die if they dont have blood, and here they are still around . it is not like we are saying ...we refuse ALL treatment .... it is just one thing ,and that is blood , to be honest the blood issue is not an issue in this day and age because there are many things out there to be used instead of blood . many years ago the medical people refused to treat some of Jehovahs people ,because they refused one part of their treatment. and because of refusing to treat these people ,in some cases they may have died because of BAD TREATMENT ......... and in a way that is pursucution . but in most cases not having blood did not mean that they died ,infact the medical people have learned that treating without blood is in most cases much better for a patient , and the recovery is much better without blood . and after all in many cases people who have blood still die .Gods law is always right , and even in an emergency it is not right to disregard the Almightys law. here is an example of those who disregarded Gods law in an emergency,
(1 Samuel 14:32) And the people began darting greedily at the spoil and taking sheep and cattle and calves and slaughtering them on the earth, and the people fell to eating along with the blood........................ this happened because they were very tired and they thought it was alright to disregard the blood law . but it was a sin ...............