Who is the beast in revealation?

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

If something good has happened he says its Jehovahs will etc but if something bad happens it must be all Satan. How about Humans. ****, maybe we are actually responsible for something.???????/

the fact of the matter is..... humans were not created to rule themselves independant of God , thats why no matter how many goverments are tried it will never work out , the earth is full of problems , even though human rulers may try their best ,we were never created to rule ourselves.



yes i agree that humans doing it there own way makes problem after problem ,it is all trial and error .


but at the end of the day satan is responsible for all of the problems because he was the instigater of the rebellion back in the Garden of Eden , and it was him that got the first humans to go it alone .

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I know it can be hard, as he only quotes the watchtower.org lol....

i think you will find that all Jehovahs witnesses quote what the bible says and that is what they base their beliefs on .


rather than manmade thoughts

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

But, that is because it is true....

You think Satan causes to be? Tsuanmi for example... Were the people involved evil people of satan? And God removed them? Or do you think they were ALL good people? And Satan removed them? Or do you think, it was just something that naturally happened? And what good/bad these poor souls have done before dying to the disaster will go ahead of them and be counted? and from there, it shall be judged.... Not from this one example on Earth.... JW's would have you believe that satan was responsible btw.... But then, if he were, it doesn't matter what some book says, if Satan did that God would step in, because god is a being of mercy, but it doesn't work like that.......

tell me ,why do you say that JW think God made the tsuanmi and other tragic things happen? the God of the bible is not responsible for killing people , it is just that people are in the wrong place at the wrong time , if i was to step off the path and into a passing bus i would die but that would not be Gods fault, it is just as the bible tells us in
(Ecclesiastes 9:11)



because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.



wrong place wrong time

[17th Angel]

Yes that is interesting that JW's will state with irony that such things are not of God's doing... (although happily say something is of Satan's doing) such as the classic example you people use, the dead little girl? And the vicar says God wanted a flower for his garden or some karp? Something along those lines.... And you then state God doesn't do such things as this, he isn't involved in anything that takes human life away....... Yet, in the "bible study book" You know the one, A5 sized yellow, on the front has a picture of an open bible.... With (if memory serves me correctly) Dark brown border? If you go near the end, it shows things that will have to happen to bring on the last days.... (revelation) Meaning, that infact, yes you believe God makes these things happen to fullfil prophecy.... If Ya think aboot it....

Hmm that has made me think of something to ponder... Noah's ark :\

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

mee., is sooo fanatical about his beliefs I cant get a conversation from him without him quoting stuff. Not his opinions, mind you just religious babble. If something good has happened he says its Jehovahs will etc but if something bad happens it must be all Satan. How about Humans. ****, maybe we are actually responsible for something.???????/

its not that i am fanatical ,its just that i make known the truth and people do not like the truth of the bible . and rather than putting over my own thoughts i would rather put over what the bible has to say . not quite sure what you mean about the good and bad thing ,


JW are not like some people who say that everything that happens is part of Gods plan , good and bad ,we do not think that at all .


i have known some so called christians say that when a plane crashes it was all part of Gods plan , the bible does not teach such lies as that ,and the God of the bible is not like that .

the bible fortold what sort of things would be happening in the last days such as in 2 timothy 3;1-5 and matthew 24 but God does not plan bad things to happen .

[17th Angel]

i think you will find that all Jehovahs witnesses quote what the bible says and that is what they base their beliefs on .


rather than manmade thoughts
---------------------

Que? LMAO........... Manmade thoughts? Yeah ok then Mee.......

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Yes that is interesting that JW's will state with irony that such things are not of God's doing... (although happily say something is of Satan's doing) such as the classic example you people use, the dead little girl? And the vicar says God wanted a flower for his garden or some karp? Something along those lines.... And you then state God doesn't do such things as this, he isn't involved in anything that takes human life away....... Yet, in the "bible study book" You know the one, A5 sized yellow, on the front has a picture of an open bible.... With (if memory serves me correctly) Dark brown border? If you go near the end, it shows things that will have to happen to bring on the last days.... (revelation) Meaning, that infact, yes you believe God makes these things happen to fullfil prophecy.... If Ya think aboot it....

Hmm that has made me think of something to ponder... Noah's ark :\

i think i am correct in saying that many religious leaders of CHRISTENDOM tell people that loved ones have gone to heaven and God wanted them up there with him ,

and when you think about that, it is actually promoting the first lie of satan ,and that FIRST lie was said to Eve , YOU WILL NOT DIE the teaching of the IMMORTALITY OF THE HUMAN SOUL is promoted by satan to teach people lies about the condtion of the dead . that first lie has been promoted in many ways .

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Hmm that has made me think of something to ponder... Noah's ark :\

have you pondered ?

i think we are living in times just like the days of noah , and back in noahs day when things did happen as noah had made known , it was God who shut the door of the ark , so no more people were able to enter into the ark . and now the making known about the GOODNEWS of salvation is going on all over the world, and eventually the preaching work will stop and it will be to late to get into the place of concealment,


but the sign of christs PRESENCE has been going on since 1914 and we are in a time like noahs day .



while most people realize that noah was a builder of an ark, not many realize that Noah was also a preacher . and i can imagine that he must have been ridiculed when he told others how to get away safe

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

no, 17th, didnt mee say that is when gods rule has started again etc and the messiah is here. oh crap I cant follow all this prophecy, I think Ill wait fo r the movie to come out.

1914 was the START of the last days , and the last days mean the last days of humans ruling themselves independant of God , it was the start of the end for human rulership.

the end of manmade goverments is what the end means , not the end of the planet . thats why in matthew 24;14 it speaks about GOODNEWS OF THE KINGDOM AND THEN THE END WILL COME ,



It will be the end of man ruling himself, but first the GOODNEWS about the kingdom will be made known .

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by mee

1914 was the START of the last days , and the last days mean the last days of humans ruling themselves independant of God , it was the start of the end for human rulership.

the end of manmade goverments is what the end means , not the end of the planet . thats why in matthew 24;14 it speaks about GOODNEWS OF THE KINGDOM AND THEN THE END WILL COME ,



It will be the end of man ruling himself, but first the GOODNEWS about the kingdom will be made known .

this is another false setting of a date by a group known for setting false prophecies.. jesus warns us to beware of false teachers and false prophets.

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

jesus warns us to beware of false teachers and false prophets.

he certainly did , and there are many around who are in direct opposition to the channel Jesus is using and feeding matthew 24;34-37

[bible_reader]

I think I might become Atheist because it seems like all the cool kids are doing it these days. It's sooo punk rock!

I am sure sick and tired of reading asinine posts from people who havent touched a Bible since they were last in court for a drug raid.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Azure24

The word "beast(s)" is found 356 times in the King James Bible—59 times in Revelation alone. Most of these beasts are literal four-footed animals, albeit, all 59 of the beasts in Revelation are symbols for something other than four-footed animals. The four beasts made reference to 7 times in the singular from Rev. 4:6 to 6:7 should be translated "living creatures" and not "beasts." And all references to "beasts" in the plural (15 times) from Rev. 4:6 to Rev. 19:4 should be also translated "living creatures," with the exception of Rev. 6:8 and 18:13 where "beast" is correct.

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a

[wild] beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy [Gk: 'a blasphemous name'].
And the wild beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion, and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat [throne], and great authority.
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded [as if it had been wounded] to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the wild beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the wild beast: and they worshipped the wild beast saying, Who is like unto the wild beast? Who is able to make war with him?
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power [authority] was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power [authority] was given him over all kindreds [tribes], and tongues, and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
If any man have an ear, let him hear." (Rev. 13:1-9).

There’s more: <B>

"And I beheld ANOTHER wild beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.
And he exercises all the power </B>[authority] of the first wild beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST wild beast [the one from the sea] before him [in his presence], and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first wild beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the wild beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an IMAGE to the wild beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
And he had power to give life unto the image of the wild beast, that the image of the wild beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the IMAGE OF THE WILD BEAST should be killed.
And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a MARK in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the MARK, or the NAME of the wild beast, or the NUMBER OF HIS NAME.
Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the wild beast: for it is THE NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is SIX HUNDRED THREESCORE AND SIX [666]" (Rev. 13:11-18).

It behooves us to know just who or what this wild beast is, and especially his image. It is a force and a power to be reckoned with by every human that has ever lived or ever will live.
On the one hand we have this:

"Who is like the unto the wild beast? Who is able to make war with him?… And it was given unto him to MAKE WAR WITH THE SAINTS… And all that dwell upon the earth SHALL WORSHIP HIM, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb…" (Rev. 13:4, 7, & 8).

On the other hand we have this:

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, if any man worship the wild beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the WRATH OF GOD, WHICH IS POURED OUT WITHOUT MIXTURE…" (Rev. 14:9-10).

Talk about finding oneself in between a rock and a hard place.

Apparently we can either be AT WAR with this wild beast, though we are warned: "…who is ABLE to make war with him"? Or, we can partake of "THE WRATH OF GOD poured out without mixture…" Either prospect is extremely frightening. But I would rather be on God’s side than on the side of the wild beast. However, how well will we fare in war against this wild beast, seeing that God warns us, "Who is ABLE TO MAKE WAR WITH HIM?"


"Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the NUMBER OF THE BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six [666]" (Rev. 13:18).

Is this indeed what the Greek manuscripts of Rev. 13:18 state? No, it is not.
The Greek word used when only man is meant (always excluding woman), is aner. But the Greek word translated "man" in Rev. 13:18 is not aner, but rather the word anthropos, which means "a human being, male or female." Strong’s Concordant.
Furthermore, it is not the number of "a" anything. It is just the number of human or of mankind! Even the Revised Standard Version translators saw this and therefore, states, "It’s number is six hundred sixty-six." The number of the wild beast is not the number of "a" man, but rather the number of "man" or "mankind."

Personally i belive the beast is all of us. The 'beast' within....

Hmm...

Jeremiah 31:27-34

27 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and the seed of beast. 28 And it shall come to pass, that as I have watched over them to pluck up, to break down, to throw down, to destroy, and to afflict, so I will watch over them to build and to plant, says the LORD. 29 In those days they shall say no more:


‘ The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.
A New Covenant


31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Sounds like "the beast within" might be a dysfunctional conscience.

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

jesus warns us to beware of false teachers and false prophets.

Jesus certainly did forewarn about false teachers creeping into the congregations, and they were men from among themselves. and many got to be misled and take on board those teachings.


and those teachings have been with us for centuries , but they are all lies .

[China Cat Sunflower]

The beast is Rome. The mark of the Beast is the sphere of it's influence both intellectually and economically, as symbolized by the mark on the forehead and hand respectively. There's an entire chapter of Revelation devoted to how bad it's going to be for anyone in bed with the Roman empire, most especially the merchants who rely on her patronage.

Chris