Who is the real Gabriel?

[True Gabriel]

Originally Posted by arthra

"...here is the difference in Quran as narrated Gabriel 3x try to make Mohammed READ"...

Here's the problem though the word "Iqra" also means "recite" or "proclaim"

Sahih International
Recite in the name of your Lord who created -

What you need is better research.

Actually I did check on that too and strange that it would have three meanings, and I guess the official translation that was adapted for English is READ. Even though we include all three possible meanings which are READ< RECITE and PROCLAIM, Mohammed's answer would still be the same, I can't, I can't and I can't. Plus Gabriel would still hug him or squeeze him very tight to make him read, recite or proclaim.

It still raise the question, what is it that Mohammed can not recite or can not proclaim? And why couldn't Gabriel make it happen even though Gabriel tried 3x?

The Gabriel-Mary has no problem because it was taken from the Bible story, Muslims accept some materials in the Bible as not corrupt things that they have included in the Quran and discarded stuff from the Bible and not include them in their Quran that they claim are corrupt. Gabriel is one of the materials that Muslims consider not corrupted. But the story of Mary and Gabriel has been modified excluding many things that the Bible has written about such as Gabriel proclaiming Jesus is the Son of God, Mary and Joseph. But Muslims in general accept the characteristic of Gabriel as the archangel, pure, noble, all knowing, and powerful.

The reason why Gabriel-Mohammed has a different characteristic because it was not taken or reference to the Gabriel-Bible.

[A Cup Of Tea]

Could it be that Gabriel acted differently at different times to produce the desired effect? Mary and Mohammed are very different people and have different purpose. I wouldn't know to what end but is it so strange that someone/thing are very different in different situations? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jesus treat different people differently?

[Lunitik]

Originally Posted by True Gabriel

In other words the Gabriel of Mohammed is different from Gabriel of Mary. Gabriel-Mohammed is not enlighten because he failed to recognize Mohammed's illiteracy and kept on forcing Mohammed to the point that Mohammed got so terrified. While Gabriel of Mary is the enlighten he was very assuring, polite, knows all and was able perform a miracle through the power of Allah, Mary got pregnant without a human father.

If there is two Gabriel what does this mean to the revelation that Mohammed has received was it from Allah or was it from that Gabriel??

For me, the Gabriel of Muhammad has served an equal purpose to that of Mary: they have prepared the way. Mary had to perform the duties of a mother, this is echoed in the encounter, it is very loving. Muhammad would have to unite the tribes of Arabia, and engage in much war to position his ministry. This Gabriel has prepared him just as fittingly, by creating an environment that forces him to encounter fear directly and overcome it.

Does the Quran not say "Nothing exists save Allah"? God is every actor, every prop, and the director. It is all from Him, we merely do not perceive that we are animated automatically, we do not perceive that our thoughts are not our own. Mansur Al-Hallaj is an example of a Muslim killed for proclaiming truth, so my words are dangerous for you. Follow the example Muhammad set, meditate on the nature of God, but be quiet about what you find if you are in a Muslim country.

[Lunitik]

Originally Posted by arthra

"...here is the difference in Quran as narrated Gabriel 3x try to make Mohammed READ"...

Here's the problem though the word "Iqra" also means "recite" or "proclaim"

Sahih International
Recite in the name of your Lord who created -

What you need is better research.

I agree, Gabriel wouldn't have been ignorant to Muhammads illiteracy, he will have known Muhammad was aware of what must be declared already. Muhammad was not yet willing, however, he has not yet utterly accepted what has happened to him.

At this point, certainly no more than a Satori has happened... he retains identification with the past, with his former self.

[True Gabriel]

Originally Posted by A Cup Of Tea

Could it be that Gabriel acted differently at different times to produce the desired effect? Mary and Mohammed are very different people and have different purpose. I wouldn't know to what end but is it so strange that someone/thing are very different in different situations? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jesus treat different people differently?

The characteristic of Gabriel-Mary of Islam is similar to Gabriel of the Bible that appear to Mary, Daniel and Zechariah.

Luke 1:11 - 23
11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear.
13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John.
14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth,
15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.
16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God.
17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

18 Zechariah asked the angel, “How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years.”

19 The angel said to him, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news.

20 And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their appointed time.”

21 Meanwhile, the people were waiting for Zechariah and wondering why he stayed so long in the temple. 22 When he came out, he could not speak to them. They realized he had seen a vision in the temple, for he kept making signs to them but remained unable to speak.

With one word, Gabriel took away Zechariah's ability to speak.

Daniel 8:16 - 19
16 And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.”

17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,” he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.”

18 While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet.

19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.

Gabriel appear to Daniel same thing, at first Daniel was scared but Gabriel was able to calm him down just like Zechariah and Mary was scared at first and was successfully calm down.

Not only Gabriel but Michael the archangel have the same characteristic with Gabriel, calm, polite, all knowing and has miraculous powers.

The reason why Gabriel-Mary of Islam has the same characteristic of Gabriel-Bible is because it was taken from the Bible. While Gabriel-Mohammed was not, it was the first part of the Quran that reveal the encounter of the spirit that they thought was Gabriel that is why the narration of the characteristic of Gabriel-Mohammed is not the same as that of Gabriel-Mary of Islam. Muslims accept parts of he Bible as not corrupt and parts as corrupt one of the parts that Muslims accept as not corrupt is Gabriel, in fact if Muslims have at least accepted 90% of the Bible as not corrupt they'll probably have resolve this Gabriel issue long time ago and recognize that the spirit that appear to Mohammed was not Gabriel.

Jesus Christ has taken human form with all the human attributes he reacts to different characteristic of every individuals he knows how to deal with soldiers, the Pharisees, Pontius Pilate, Herald, angry crowd, weeping women, the sick, the blind, the doubters, etc. Jesus message has been very consistent and that is the Kingdom of God is not of this world and that everyone are children of God.

[Lunitik]

@True Gabriel

Apologies, I have assumed you Muslim.

For you, I recommend meditating on the following from the gospel of Thomas:

Jesus said to them: when you make the two one,
and when you make the inner as the outer
and the outer as the inner, and the above as the below, and
When you make the male and the female into a single one,
so that the male will not be male and the female not be female,
then shall you enter the kingdom.

Really, most all of Thomas is interesting, but this especially - it is a statement that you have to transcend duality, this is all I have talked about on this site, but perhaps knowing Jesus said similar will help you encounter.

[Abdullah]

Originally Posted by True Gabriel

According the the Quran the spirit only started hugging Mohammed when Mohammed said he can not read and the hug was so tight that Mohammed could not breath not only that if the hug was to make Mohammed read, it surely did not work.

It is not about saying Islam is wrong it is about learning if Islam is the true religion of God as being aggressively and strongly claim by Muslims since it’s founding in the 7th century by a man name Mohammed or is it just another religion?

If Islam is the true religion of God then the Quran should be flawless without any conflict or questionable verses or the need to abrogate verses one verse from the other. Why would Muslims adapt abrogation if the revelation was indeed from Allah?

We already see in the beginning the inconsistency with the characteristics of Gabriel that appear to Mohammed and Gabriel that appear to Mary. The difference is very evident and it would seem base on the Quran narration the uncharacteristic of Gabriel - Mohammed clearly show that it is not the same Gabriel of Mary.

Muslims are explaining the narration of the Quran out of context insisting that there is no inconsistency between the Gabriel-Mohammed and Gabriel-Mary.

Examining the context it is clear that Gabriel ask Mohammed to read this mean there was a written document or book present. Mohammed was not totally scare in the beginning that is why he stayed to find out what the spirit wants from him it was only after Gabriel started to squeeze him when he told Gabriel he can not read. Because Mohammed felt that this is not how a good angel should act he got terrified because if he would have stayed any longer he fear he might die because the squeezing was so intense that he felt his heart was to pop out.

3x Gabriel try to make Mohammed read and 3x he failed unlike the Gabriel of Mary, Gabriel just utter the message of Allah “Be” and miraculously Mary became pregnant without a human father. One would think that Gabriel of Mohammed would have successfully done the same thing when he invoke the power of Allah upon Mohammed with the words “READ”.

there are spiritual laws just as there are physical laws; the 'be and it is' is just to decree a matter, but yet the spiritual law required Jibril [as] to breathe into mary's womb for her to conceive, just as an angel breathes in the soul into all mothers' womb:

As to her being pregnant, many scholars say that jibril [as] blew on her chest, and the blow entered her womb through her vagina, and so she became pregant:

66.12. And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

[ref: stories of the Prophets by Ibn Kathir]



a spiritual conception dont require a hard spiritual blow on the soul, but this is not the same for everything; if you ask sufi's they'd tell you that the soul receives a hard blow when a spiritual meaniing descends on it, this is why some sufi's get spiritually intoxicated, i.e, they mentally loose it a bit, albeit temporarily; sahaba/'s got spiritually intoxicated as well for the same reason

and the hardest of blows on the soul is when Allah [swt] reveveals himself in his speach; this is why Moses fell unconcious; it weren't as plain sailing as a spiritual conception for moses was it, so why should it be for muhammad [saw]?; he too is only a human being, thus the transferring of Jibril's [as] spritual attributes to Muhammad [saw] required them hard squeezes, and the wisdom of hardship in Allahs' cause is expailend as above

And as Arthra said, Iqra means to recite and procliam too, and you seem to have missed the bit above where i explained that he may not have been required to read anything at all, but since that word was the first word of revelation too, maybe that word was just meant to penetarte his heart

in the Quran there is a verse that tells the Prophet [saw] not to move his lips when revelation descends on him, and that it is upto Allah to gather it in his heart:

Move not your tongue with it in order to hasten it. It is on Us to gather it (in your heart) and to recite it. So, when We read it, follow its reading. Then it is on Us to explain it. (75:16-19)

Originally Posted by True Gabriel

Another questionable aspect is the abrogation law, Muslims have adapted the rule of abrogation in order to settle any conflict of verses. Why would there be conflict of verses on the first place if Mohammed‘s revelation was truly from Allah? The rule of abrogation stated that verses that came later will supersedes verses of previous revelations. The issue would seem that many early revelations teaches tolerance, freedom of religion, peace and justice. While the later parts of revelations consist mostly of none tolerance, force conversion, and lots of violence against none believer and apostates.

abrogation is easy to understand when one considers the mercy behind it; Islam got revealed gradually over 23 years, and ALlah let the people gradually get used to divine rules; thus some were abrogated for others; also it is a sign of Allah's mercy where Allah abrogates one rule for a better rule, and there are only a few abrogated verses, and most of the verses in the Quran are merely put into context; this is the case with peace and war verses

[Abdullah]

Originally Posted by True Gabriel

Weeks later, Mohammed's wife will die and Mohammed's encounter with that Gabriel did not get any better especially with the controversial Satanic verses.

here is a chapter from Adil Salahi's Muhammad man and Prophet that explains this:

the Prophet [saw] recited surah 53, entitled an-najm [ the star], when a large number of people, many of who'm were non-muslims, were in the mosque, this surah has a very powerfull ending, which reminds people of the majesty of ALlah and his control over the universe, and that they will surely die and be resurrected, the surah reaches it's climax with the last verse, which commands all mankind to prostate themselves to ALlah and to worship him alone, here is the ending of this surah:


53.43. That it is He Who granteth Laughter and Tears;
44. That it is He Who granteth Death and Life;
45. That He did create in pairs,- male and female,
46. From a seed when lodged (in its place);
47. That He hath promised a Second Creation (Raising of the Dead);
48. That it is He Who giveth wealth and satisfaction;
49. That He is the Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star);
50. And that it is He Who destroyed the (powerful) ancient 'Ad (people),
51. And the Thamud nor gave them a lease of perpetual life.
52. And before them, the people of Noah, for that they were (all) most unjust and most insolent transgressors,
53. And He destroyed the Overthrown Cities (of Sodom and Gomorrah).
54. So that (ruins unknown) have covered them up.
55. Then which of the gifts of thy Lord, (O man,) wilt thou dispute about?
56. This is a Warner, of the (series of) Warners of old!
57. The (Judgment) ever approaching draws nigh:
58. No (soul) but Allah can lay it bare.
59. Do ye then wonder at this recital?
60. And will ye laugh and not weep,-
61. Wasting your time in vanities? 62. But fall ye down in prostration to Allah, and adore (Him)!



when one considers the Quran allways has a powerful rythm wihch is most suitable for it's subject matter, one can imagine that the powerful rythm here makes these verses sound like a strong hammering. those Arabs listening to the surah being recited by muhammad [saw], the prophet to who'm it was revealed, knew deep at heart that he never told a falsehood, hence every single one of them, muslim and non-muslim alike, prostated himself as commanded by ALlah. Alwaleed al Mughira, an old man and an unbeliever, took a handfull of dust and put it his forehead on it.

soon afterwards, the unbelievers realised what had happened, others like Abu Jahel, could not believe their ears when they heard the story. they wanted to oppose the Prophet [saw], but they had to explian their behaviour and dismiss the whole incident as a non-event. one of their poets came up with the devilish idea that muhammad [saw] mentioned their deities in favourable terms, they went as far coining a couplet of verses praising their idols and claimed that these were used by the Prophet [saw] as he recited the surah to them. It was easy for them to do that, since the surah mentions three of their most famour idiols, al-laat al-uzza and al-manaat, but what does the Quran have to say about them in this particular surah?:


53.19. Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
20. And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
21. What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?
22. Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! 23. These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!



it was in the middle of this passage that those fabricators of the quraish sought to impose their invented couplets after the names of their three idols. the fabricated couplets read: 'these are exalted birds, who'se intercession is desirable". little did they reflect that such as imposistion could not be accepted by any thinking person among them, amlost every verse in the surah is in conflict with such a description, or such compromise. it is sufficient to try read the above quoted passage together with the claimed couplet to realise the whole thing was total fabrication. even the makkan desbelievers themselves were unconvinced and they dropped the report alltogther, allthough some unscrupulous orientalists and other people who are hostile to Islam have tried to make something out of it

[Abdullah]

Originally Posted by arthra

"Gabriel" wrote:

According the the Quran the spirit only started hugging Mohammed when Mohammed said he can not read and the hug was so tight that Mohammed could not breath not only that if the hug was to make Mohammed read, it surely did not work.

To be accurate the Qur'an does not say this.. It is Hadith of Bukhari.. but let's assume it occurred as Bukhari related it.

First let's look at the verses of the Qur'an Surih al-'Alaq Aya 1-5:


Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-
He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
Taught man that which he knew not.

( A. Yusuf Ali)

Now consider that there is a similarity to a Biblical text found in Jeremiah 1:6-8

6 Then I said, “Alas, Lord [a]GOD!
Behold, I do not know how to speak,
Because I am a youth.”
7 But the LORD said to me,
“Do not say, ‘I am a youth,’
Because everywhere I send you, you shall go,
And all that I command you, you shall speak.
8 “Do not be afraid of them,
For I am with you to deliver you,” declares the LORD.

In both cases Prophet Muhammad was illiterate and Jeremiah did not know how to speak as he was a youth..

What about the account of Bukhari that Prophet Muhammad was being "hugged".. Another angelic visitation is recorded in the Bible..

The Biblical text has:

And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.... And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

- Genesis 32:24-31

See:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._the_Angel.jpg

So the Angel of the Lord has not only "hugged" but wrestled...

My own belief is that these should be taken in symbolic ways, and that "wrestling with the Spirit" or the chest being compressed could be related.

But I think it does show that the Qur'an is certainly in the same spirit as the Bible..

very interesting comparisons arthra

i am 'Ibrahim' by the way from the other intefaith forum; nice to see you here!

[True Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Lunitik

@True Gabriel

Apologies, I have assumed you Muslim.

For you, I recommend meditating on the following from the gospel of Thomas:

Jesus said to them: when you make the two one,
and when you make the inner as the outer
and the outer as the inner, and the above as the below, and
When you make the male and the female into a single one,
so that the male will not be male and the female not be female,
then shall you enter the kingdom.

Really, most all of Thomas is interesting, but this especially - it is a statement that you have to transcend duality, this is all I have talked about on this site, but perhaps knowing Jesus said similar will help you encounter.

Thomas is one of my favourite characters in the Bible especially with his encounter with the resurrected Jesus Christ that I myself can relate to:

Luke 20:25 -29
25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”

27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

[True Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Abdullah

there are spiritual laws just as there are physical laws; the 'be and it is' is just to decree a matter, but yet the spiritual law required Jibril [as] to breathe into mary's womb for her to conceive, just as an angel breathes in the soul into all mothers' womb:

As to her being pregnant, many scholars say that jibril [as] blew on her chest, and the blow entered her womb through her vagina, and so she became pregant:

66.12. And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

[ref: stories of the Prophets by Ibn Kathir]



a spiritual conception dont require a hard spiritual blow on the soul, but this is not the same for everything; if you ask sufi's they'd tell you that the soul receives a hard blow when a spiritual meaniing descends on it, this is why some sufi's get spiritually intoxicated, i.e, they mentally loose it a bit, albeit temporarily; sahaba/'s got spiritually intoxicated as well for the same reason

and the hardest of blows on the soul is when Allah [swt] reveveals himself in his speach; this is why Moses fell unconcious; it weren't as plain sailing as a spiritual conception for moses was it, so why should it be for muhammad [saw]?; he too is only a human being, thus the transferring of Jibril's [as] spritual attributes to Muhammad [saw] required them hard squeezes, and the wisdom of hardship in Allahs' cause is expailend as above

And as Arthra said, Iqra means to recite and procliam too, and you seem to have missed the bit above where i explained that he may not have been required to read anything at all, but since that word was the first word of revelation too, maybe that word was just meant to penetarte his heart

in the Quran there is a verse that tells the Prophet [saw] not to move his lips when revelation descends on him, and that it is upto Allah to gather it in his heart:

Move not your tongue with it in order to hasten it. It is on Us to gather it (in your heart) and to recite it. So, when We read it, follow its reading. Then it is on Us to explain it. (75:16-19)


abrogation is easy to understand when one considers the mercy behind it; Islam got revealed gradually over 23 years, and ALlah let the people gradually get used to divine rules; thus some were abrogated for others; also it is a sign of Allah's mercy where Allah abrogates one rule for a better rule, and there are only a few abrogated verses, and most of the verses in the Quran are merely put into context; this is the case with peace and war verses

I agree, Gabriel with the power of Allah said the words"Be" and Mary became pregnant. The same did not happen or failed to happen when Gabriel of that incident with Mohammed failed to make it happen even after Gabriel utter what sound like sacred words "READ" or " "Iqra" 3x he utter those words and accompany it with physical contact to make it happen and it didn't work.

This would be the only time that Gabriel has failed very uncharacteristic for an angel that was send by Allah.

If we look at the Bible verse, Galatians 1:6 - 8

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—

7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

I think it is pretty self explanatory.

Abrogation is fine if it is to strengthen the scriptures of our Lord or Allah. The problem is in Islam, the abrogation rule seem to be against most of the verses that teaches love, equality, freedom of religion etc. verse teachings that are similar to Christianity that came during the early years of Islam while the later parts were mostly aggressive verses of war and punishment to all none believers and apostates. And it would seem this is the reason why the Taliban, al Qaeda and other fundamentalist Muslims are following. If Muslims can have those violent verses abrogated then I believe there will be no need for religious wars or jihad as interpreted by the fundamentalist Muslims.

[Lunitik]

Originally Posted by True Gabriel

Thomas is one of my favourite characters in the Bible especially with his encounter with the resurrected Jesus Christ that I myself can relate to:

Luke 20:25 -29
25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”

27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

For me, the Gospel of Thomas is the most beautiful text which can be attributed to the early Christians.

[True Gabriel]

It is written that Khadija first wife of Mohammed was not a believer or follower of Arab idolatry religion she believe in monotheism and her cousin was a Nestorian Christian monk. When Mohammed reported to her that he was visited by a jin or genie, Khadija immidiately clam him down and convince him that it was not a genie but it was the angel Gabriel. How would Khadija know that it was an angel if she i snot a Christian? If she practice monotheism, the only existing monotheistic religion was Christianity and Judaim so she probably must be a Christian or Judaism? Chances are Christian especially since her cousin is a devoted Nestorian Christian monk?

THis would answer where Mohammed got his Christian background aside from other Christians during his travel as a merchant?

[Abdullah]

Originally Posted by True Gabriel

It is written that Khadija first wife of Mohammed was not a believer or follower of Arab idolatry religion she believe in monotheism and her cousin was a Nestorian Christian monk. When Mohammed reported to her that he was visited by a jin or genie, Khadija immidiately clam him down and convince him that it was not a genie but it was the angel Gabriel. How would Khadija know that it was an angel if she i snot a Christian? If she practice monotheism, the only existing monotheistic religion was Christianity and Judaim so she probably must be a Christian or Judaism? Chances are Christian especially since her cousin is a devoted Nestorian Christian monk?

THis would answer where Mohammed got his Christian background aside from other Christians during his travel as a merchant?

there was the basic understanding of the religion of Abraham and Ismael in Arabia at that time and specifically amongst the Meccan Arabs, as Khadija was, for Makkah was the centre of pilgrimage that was still continuing since Abrahams time, and the holiest of places of worship dedicated to the worship of ALlah was there, the Holy Ka'aba, that was built by Abraham and Ismael [as] themselves

thus allthough the arabs had introduced polythiestic concepts such as worshipping idols along with ALlah, yet they had basic ideas of good and bad, angels, etc, thus being fully aquainted with Muhammad's [saw] sublime character, she just knew that Allah would not humiliate him or send him crazy like that, or make him an invitation to jinns messing with him; in their hearts, the Makkans knew that ALlah was the God of the heavens and lives were really in His hands

Muhammad [saw] was known as the al-ameen (the trustworthy) before he reached his prophethood, he never told a lie, he was kind compassionate and looked after orphans and loved and gave charity to the poor people, he even detested the idols and never worshipped them, following his inbuilt knowledge to worship the God of the heavens alone

thus Khadija knew by intuition that what Muhammad [saw] experienced must be a real angel

basically, Khadija, nawfal, the christian monk, etc, were all part of Allah's plan of how gradually Muhammad [saw] will be reassured, giving the new found spirituality that was tansferred from Jibril [as] to him, to take a steady hold of his senses and make him see the truth from the confusion and fear that was only natural for him to experience

[True Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Abdullah

there was the basic understanding of the religion of Abraham and Ismael in Arabia at that time and specifically amongst the Meccan Arabs, as Khadija was, for Makkah was the centre of pilgrimage that was still continuing since Abrahams time, and the holiest of places of worship dedicated to the worship of ALlah was there, the Holy Ka'aba, that was built by Abraham and Ismael [as] themselves

thus allthough the arabs had introduced polythiestic concepts such as worshipping idols along with ALlah, yet they had basic ideas of good and bad, angels, etc, thus being fully aquainted with Muhammad's [saw] sublime character, she just knew that Allah would not humiliate him or send him crazy like that, or make him an invitation to jinns messing with him; in their hearts, the Makkans knew that ALlah was the God of the heavens and lives were really in His hands

Muhammad [saw] was known as the al-ameen (the trustworthy) before he reached his prophethood, he never told a lie, he was kind compassionate and looked after orphans and loved and gave charity to the poor people, he even detested the idols and never worshipped them, following his inbuilt knowledge to worship the God of the heavens alone

thus Khadija knew by intuition that what Muhammad [saw] experienced must be a real angel

basically, Khadija, nawfal, the christian monk, etc, were all part of Allah's plan of how gradually Muhammad [saw] will be reassured, giving the new found spirituality that was tansferred from Jibril [as] to him, to take a steady hold of his senses and make him see the truth from the confusion and fear that was only natural for him to experience

I thought the story about Abraham and Ishmael having build the Kabaa started only after Mohammed got his revelation? before that the Kabaa was the temple of gods and goddesses that has nothing to do with Abraham?

Indeed, Mohammed was known to be trustworthy that was why Khadija took him as her husband, then why would Khadija doubt Mohammed when he told her that it was a jin and not Gabriel?

Waraqa who was an Ebonite or Nestorian Christian monk also re-assure Mohammed that it was angel Gabriel because Waraqa believe that Mohammed was the prophet of the Ebonite or Nestorian sect that would expand their faith to the Arabs.

Both Khadija and Waraqa do not believe in jins or genies and yet, we will find in the Quran the inclusion of these spirits, why? Was Mohammed not fully convince that there was no jins? Sura 51:56 and Sura 72

Khadija could not have been more sure or firm that it was an angel and not a jin by intuition alone unless she is a firm believer of the Bible, chances are she was a firm believer either of the Ebonite, Nestorian Christian sect which are consider heretical by the establish church or she is a Jew, she was probably not a follower or believer of the establish Christian church.

The Ebonite and Nestorian sects do not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, the Trinity and Mary. It is too much a coincident that Islam follows their same doctrine in fact in the Quran Sura 5:116 and 117 and Sura 5:71 -74 directly mention about the Trinity, deity of Jesus Christ and the worshipping of Mary. The problem is, Christians never worship Mary one will never find anywhere in the ancient council meetings that Mary was establish to be worship, what was establish was to give Mary special status not equal to God or be like God or to be worship.

The anti Trinity, Mary and deity of Jesus were all from the heretical Christian sects such as the Arianism, Nestorian, Ebonite and many more and all of these sects were wide spread in the Middle East during that era when the Byzantine started to banned these sects those sects retreated to the outskirts away from the centre of Byzantine control areas.