who is the word - Page 2

mee · 02-02-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

"And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent" (John 17:3).

Here is a simple explanation of how eternal life is obtained. It is by knowing God and Jesus Christ. The only true God is in contrast to idols, which are not genuine gods at all. This verse does not mean that Jesus Christ is not the true God. The fact that His Name is mentioned together with God the Father's as being the joint source of eternal life means that They are equal. Here the Lord called Himself Jesus Christ. Christ was the same as Messiah. This verse disproves the charge that Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah. Moreover, Mee, if you know your OT, it proves that Messiah is God in the flesh.

notice how John 17;3 says know the true God AND know Jesus. they are not the same . and yes Jesus christ was the messiah ,
The historical evidence found in the Gospels demonstrates that Jesus was indeed the Messiah
"Messiah" means "anointed one.

mee · 02-02-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

Jesus used the greek present tense word "ego emi" meaning "I am." So it could not have been "I have been" as you claim. If Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I have been" as you opt for, they wouldnt have tried to kill him. He said, "Before Abraham was, I am." And the listeners knew exactly what He meant and therefore, not believing Him, tried to kill him.

other translations also realize that this is the way to translate John 8;58
Which rendering agrees with the context? The question of the Jews (verse 57) to which Jesus was replying had to do with age, not identity. Jesus’ reply logically dealt with his age, the length of his existence.

Dor · 02-02-2007, 06:58 PM

Mee check the credentials for the people who wrote your new, better translation of the Bible and you will see they did not do it better at all, they mearly made it fit their ideas.

mee · 02-02-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Mee check the credentials for the people who wrote your new, better translation of the Bible and you will see they did not do it better at all, they mearly made it fit their ideas.

and what about these other translations

Fourth/Fifth century.... before Abraham was, I have been .....Syriac—Edition:
A Translation of the Four
Gospels from the Syriac of
the Sinaitic Palimpsest,
by Agnes Smith Lewis,

London, 1894.
more to come

mee · 02-02-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Mee check the credentials for the people who wrote your new, better translation of the Bible and you will see they did not do it better at all, they mearly made it fit their ideas.

Fifth Century..... before ever Abraham came to be ,I was ...... Curetonian Syriac—Edition:
The Curetonian Version of
the Four Gospels, by
F.Crawford Burkitt, Vol. 1,

Cambridge, England, 1904.

mee · 02-02-2007, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Mee check the credentials for the people who wrote your new, better translation of the Bible and you will see they did not do it better at all, they mearly made it fit their ideas.

it seems the list goes on

Fifth Century ...before Abraham existed,I was... Syriac Pe****ta—Edition:
The Syriac New Testament
Translated into English
from the Pe****to Version,
by James Murdock, seventh
ed., Boston and London,

1896

mee · 02-02-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Mee check the credentials for the people who wrote your new, better translation of the Bible and you will see they did not do it better at all, they mearly made it fit their ideas.

and there is more

Fifth Century ...before Abraham came to be,I was ... Georgian—Edition:
"The Old Georgian Version
of the Gospel of John," by
Robert P. Blake and Maurice
Brière, published in
Patrologia Orientalis,

Vol. XXVI

fascicle 4,

Paris, 1950.

mee · 02-02-2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Mee check the credentials for the people who wrote your new, better translation of the Bible and you will see they did not do it better at all, they mearly made it fit their ideas.

Sixth Century ...before Abraham was born,I was...Ethiopic—Edition:
Novum Testamentum . . .
Æthiopice (The New
Testament . . . in
Ethiopic), by Thomas Pell
Platt, revised by F.

Praetorius, Leipzig, 1899

Silas · 02-02-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

notice how John 17;3 says know the true God AND know Jesus. they are not the same . and yes Jesus christ was the messiah ,
The historical evidence found in the Gospels demonstrates that Jesus was indeed the Messiah "Messiah" means "anointed one.

Jesus' name is mentioned together with God the Father's as being the joint source of eternal life. Why? Also, yes Messiah means "anointed one." Are you familar with the prophecies of the promised coming of the anointed one in the OT? Do you know who He is said to be?

Silas · 02-02-2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

other translations also realize that this is the way to translate John 8;58
Which rendering agrees with the context? The question of the Jews (verse 57) to which Jesus was replying had to do with age, not identity. Jesus’ reply logically dealt with his age, the length of his existence.

You are aware that those translations were written to fit a certain mold, right? This is so simply to just a child like understanding. If Jesus was simply saying that he existed before Abraham as an angel, as you opt for, the Jews wouldnt have wanted to Kill them. It is obvious that they understood Him to mean that He was claiming to be God. It wasnt even the first time. Do you agree with the Pharisees?

Dor · 02-02-2007, 08:05 PM

Yes Mee.

Arianism has been around since before the 4th century. So it is not hard to find versions from there to know that change things to fit what they believe.

Yes JW's fall in the same category cause they came from same place.

farhan · 02-02-2007, 09:01 PM

John 1:1 says

en arch hn o logoV, kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon, kai qeoV hn o logoV.

The first god is with a The, that becomes "The God", while the second god is simply a god.

So it becomes somethig like "the word was with The God , & the word was god/divine", or ,"the word was with The God, & god was the word .

And secondly, its John who is saying this, not Jesus.

Dor · 02-02-2007, 09:52 PM

so are saying you are a polysamist and thats ok cause Jesus is a god just not God. Definatly not biblical.

BlaznFattyz · 02-03-2007, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

You are aware that those translations were written to fit a certain mold, right? This is so simply to just a child like understanding. If Jesus was simply saying that he existed before Abraham as an angel, as you opt for, the Jews wouldnt have wanted to Kill them. It is obvious that they understood Him to mean that He was claiming to be God. It wasnt even the first time. Do you agree with the Pharisees?

the bible is quiet clear that jesus was making himself out to be god. sadly, people look for god in the wrong places, not because god does not want to be found, but because people want to fit god in a box, yet he is not there. but if we seek god with all our hearts; not religion, not philosophies, not culture, but seek god; then we will find his love, salvation, and grace which god has proclaimed thru his son who is the way, the truth, and the life. god's love is manifested in jesus christ, god's salvation is manifested in jesus christ, and god's grace is manifested in jesus christ. yet jesus was not born in a palace, he was born in a manger, he did not sit on a throne of gold in the temple, he was out in the streets with sinners with nowhere to rest his head, he did not sit on a war horse in battle armor, he sat on a donkey, he did not come with a sword of metal to defeat enemies, he came with a sword of fire to pierce the heart and soul. because he does not fit the preconceived notion of what some people would like, he is not found, because people have a hardened heart, or want to be considered good enough without the need of a saviour, or arrogance thru their own philosophies, or impersonal and detached rituals of religion, these things stop god from working in one's life and stops us from finding jesus christ. but the bible is quiet clear that the heart of man is wicked, and we all fall short of the glory of god, and we are all sinners, and that is why the word which was with god, and was god, came as man like us, so he could die for our sins, and return back to glory with the father so we might have eternal life in heaven through the son.

Faithfulservant · 02-03-2007, 03:09 AM

There is more than one God? If Jesus is a God and Jehovah is a God.. that means that JW's are saying that Jesus is equal to Jehovah? mee, when are you going to see the flaw in that mistranslation? When are you going to realize that a 1808 translation of the original text is highly questionable.. that was written 2000 years ago and the greek is the same then as it is now.. and the greek scholars of today say that it is Word was God. not A god.

JW's the world wide are going to be in for a big disappointment when they stand in front of the Lord and realize that everything they believed was a lie.

For God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY begotten Son.. That whosoever believes in Him (the Son) would not perish but have everlasting life.

If God had a son He would be God..
If a man had a son it would be a man
ifa monkey had a son it would be a monkey
if a dog had a son it would be a dog..

If God had a unique son.. none like Him.. begotten by God.. it would be God.

Doesnt take a Phd to figure it out