who really cares about the iraqi people?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Well, the OP strikes me as a very loaded question, especially given the poll choices...

I think we all care about the Iraqi people and just like every other complex issue different people/nations approach it with different ideologies and goals in mind, and these goals conflict.

I opposed the US initiation of war in Iraqi before it started--even considered sitting on someone's doorstep in protest except that I had a 1-year-old at the time. Saddam was cruel dictator and the chance to change that is a 'just' opportunity, in my mind. However, there are lots of situations around the world where injustice prevails and yet we don't jump into those conflicts until they touch on American interest. I know there are reasons for this, some good some less so, but war is costly in so many ways, especially lives, that doing anything that escalates the loss of life should be approached with more care than was taken, IMO.

But, now that we're in it I agree that we have to see it through to the best ends possible. Pulling out now would be worse than going in in the first place. The last thing that should be done is to leave a weak Iraq as a vacuum to be filled...I wish there was more unity among the nations on this and other conflicts around the world.

2 c,
lunamoth

I agree, with most of what you say Luna. But you should realize that this has been a powder keg since 1984 (at least), and some would say 1979.

We have a substantial population of Arab-Americans here in the United States. A poll of them states that even if we pulled out tomorrow, this will not end. Iraq will not survive, Iran will take over, Syria will lay claim to the north, Kuwait will fall to Iran, as will Saudi Arabia. And...Israel will be attacked, with the intention of driving them into the sea once and for all. Then, Israel will launch nuclear weapons against the agressors (weapons, they supposedly do not have)...

I like to keep things simple, but then nothing is simple in reality. The US pulling out of the middle east is exactly what the enemy wants.

And Wil, I'm not as naive as you take me to be...

v/r

Q

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I'm not as naive as you take me to be...

Glad to hear that.

[didymus]

I think you are debating the scraps you've been thrown by media. Isn't it coincidental that Iran is acting up and we just happen to be in the region. No one is talking about this but it sure seems convenient that if unrest and nuclear arms continue to grow there we wouldn't have very far to go to fight them if need be.



I have very mixed feelings about all that has occurred in this region. Not only from the Arab side but ours as well. I believe we are so powerful and so influential that the littlest thing we do has an enormous ripple effect across the world. We are held to a higher standard than other countries. I'm not saying that we should be but the fact is that we are. How many millions of people across the globe watch our news? We are being watched very closely by a lot of people and these people for the most part are educated and informed. We on the other hand couldn't be bothered with the next Prime Minister of Canada or other misc. facts from other countries.



Why did we choose Iraq? Because of Osama bin Laden? I really don't think so. Anyone that followed the process could see there was a strange and suspicious leap from Afghanistan and Osama to WMD in Iraq. After many recommendations by the UN we were urged to hold off and not invade. We fanned our nose at them and went in anyways. Nothing was found and no one talks of Osama. We the people are smarter than that. The powers that be would love for us to think that this is all for a noble cause. We're taking out a ruthless tyrant! Yeah, but what about all the other ruthless tyrants in the world? Why aren't we after them?



I've got to say, though, that I am impressed by the Iraqi response to the war and democracy. They want it and who can blame them? We just might pull this one off yet. I think there are a lot of Arabs out there that want democracy. I think it will be a long haul and I know that there can be good that comes out of it in the long run. However, there will be a lot of resentment and bitterness too.



I guess what i mean is that we have some serious capabilities in this country. Technology that we aren't aware of and I bet the US gov. knew of this possibilty with Iran years before it happened. To be honest it's good to know that if we need to we will be that close to them if they start firing nukes. Maybe this all has to come to it's inevitable conclusion. We're certainly not capable as a people and governments to turn the other cheek and love thy neighbor on a global scale, not yet at least. So i guess until that day comes we'll do what man throughout time and civilizations have always done. Peace by force.

[Quahom1]

I think you are debating the scraps you've been thrown by media. Isn't it coincidental that Iran is acting up and we just happen to be in the region. No one is talking about this but it sure seems convenient that if unrest and nuclear arms continue to grow there we wouldn't have very far to go to fight them if need be.

The media scraps as you put it are in fact just that. Iran does not like America in their back yard anymore than they like Israel to exist. Iran could care less whether Iraq continues to exist either. Iran does not care for Arabs (they consider them desert dwellers). Iranians are "Persians", and speak Farsi...(there is no love lost between Iran and its neighbors). Their bigotry against Arabs is worse than the rest of the world could ever be.

I have very mixed feelings about all that has occurred in this region. Not only from the Arab side but ours as well. I believe we are so powerful and so influential that the littlest thing we do has an enormous ripple effect across the world. We are held to a higher standard than other countries. I'm not saying that we should be but the fact is that we are. How many millions of people across the globe watch our news? We are being watched very closely by a lot of people and these people for the most part are educated and informed. We on the other hand couldn't be bothered with the next Prime Minister of Canada or other misc. facts from other countries.

Live and let live, and do your own thing (as long as it harms no one else). You have the right and should have the freedom to do so...perhaps that motto is what bothers the rest of the world. Or maybe it is because the rest of the world still thinks of the US as the "garbage heap". After all, this is where the world's "junk" comes to settle. Even the Statue of Liberty proclaims much the same sentiment. Why should we be bothered to know President Fox of Mexico, or Prime Minister Harper of Canada? We don't even know our own Senators and Congressmen, let alone our local and county and state representitives...(am being facetious).

Why did we choose Iraq? Because of Osama bin Laden? I really don't think so. Anyone that followed the process could see there was a strange and suspicious leap from Afghanistan and Osama to WMD in Iraq. After many recommendations by the UN we were urged to hold off and not invade. We fanned our nose at them and went in anyways. Nothing was found and no one talks of Osama. We the people are smarter than that. The powers that be would love for us to think that this is all for a noble cause. We're taking out a ruthless tyrant! Yeah, but what about all the other ruthless tyrants in the world? Why aren't we after them?

In 1988 Iraq attacked the United States without provocation. The target was the USS Ward. The two exocet missles nearly cut the frigate in half (the crew stitched the ship together with aircraft cable). 27 persons died. The apology was a joke, followed by "it is the Americans' fault".

In 1993 Al-Queda blew up a bomb in the parking garage of the World Trade center...it didn't bring about the American Ire. We held our anger in check. The teams came from Iraq. Isn't that interesting?

I've got to say, though, that I am impressed by the Iraqi response to the war and democracy. They want it and who can blame them? We just might pull this one off yet. I think there are a lot of Arabs out there that want democracy. I think it will be a long haul and I know that there can be good that comes out of it in the long run. However, there will be a lot of resentment and bitterness too.

I think you are looking at media scraps this time. 15 of the 18 Provinces in Iraq are living well, and more or less democratically. But the media focusses only on the three provinces where there is trouble. But even in those provinces, progress is being made. No small progress. and not without the help of the coalition there.

I guess what i mean is that we have some serious capabilities in this country. Technology that we aren't aware of and I bet the US gov. knew of this possibilty with Iran years before it happened. To be honest it's good to know that if we need to we will be that close to them if they start firing nukes. Maybe this all has to come to it's inevitable conclusion. We're certainly not capable as a people and governments to turn the other cheek and love thy neighbor on a global scale, not yet at least. So i guess until that day comes we'll do what man throughout time and civilizations have always done. Peace by force.

That is the beauty of this country. We do not "flex" our muscles arbitrarily. And the Texas President talks first, then acts. He just doesn't wait for a general consensus...

Iran is a dangerous country, one that America and Israel are not taking lightly.

Any nation that declares another nation has no right to exist, should be taken seriously, and should be put under shackles.

my thoughts

v/r

Q