Why?

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

You hurt the entire concept of Christianity. There is Father and Son, and Holy Spirit, and you are saying no? Jesus is, or Jesus was...this is insane! What is Jesus, a cheap trick?

your call...

v/r

Q

you need to get off of your high & mighty accusations of others!

i am NOT CATHOLIC! i do not subscribe to any form of catholicism or Nicene ONLY & i will NEVER believe in your trinity dogma & i do not listen to the Pope.
there is ONE Lord. i do not bow to three.
there are tens of millions of christians who do not believe it & there are several here who do not believe it.

you hurt the concept of christianity with your nasty accusations toward others.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Bandit

you need to get off of your high & mighty accusations of others!

i am NOT CATHOLIC! i do not subscribe to any form of catholicism or Nicene ONLY & i will NEVER believe in your trinity dogma & i do not listen to the Pope.
there is ONE Lord. i do not bow to three.
there are tens of millions of christians who do not believe it & there are several here who do not believe it.

you hurt the concept of christianity with your nasty accusations toward others.

I didn't pre-suppose anything Bandit. I didn't bring denominations into this mix either. Nor did I assume that the world believes as I do...

I will get off my horse. How about you getting off of yours?

Q

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I didn't pre-suppose anything Bandit. I didn't bring denominations into this mix either. Nor did I assume that the world believes as I do...

I will get off my horse. How about you getting off of yours?

Q

i love you Q. what is wrong with you, cant you say it back?

keep chasing people away.

[BlaznFattyz]

The Old Testament Book of Genesis, the first book of the Bible, gives us the earliest picture of the Blood. God Himself killed an animal and clothed Adam and Eve with skin. Blood had to be spilled for our first parents to have the nakedness of their sins covered, "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them" (Genesis 3:21). Their sins were covered up and forgotten, but "not without blood" (Hebrews 9:7).

Our first parents had two sons, Cain and Abel.
"And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect" (Genesis 4:2-5). - because no blood had been shed.

And the offering he brought denied that human nature is evil. God said, "Bring that little blood sacrifice which will point to the Redeemer who is coming into the world"

"Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt-offerings on the altar. And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake…" (Genesis 8:20-21).


Just as Abel brought a blood sacrifice, so did Noah. The scarlet blood sacrifice continued, pointing to the Blood of Christ.

With the call of Abraham (Genesis 12:1-3), God began forming the nation of Israel to serve Him. But Abraham had to understand the importance of a blood sacrifice for sin. When Abraham took his son Isaac and went up to Mount Moriah, the boy Isaac said, "Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt-offering?" (Genesis 22:7). The little boy knew they had to have a blood offering. He had learned it. God had told Abraham to offer Isaac (Genesis 22:2). But when Abraham raised his knife, God said:
"Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son" (Genesis 22:12-13). The blood sacrifice continued - pointing to the Blood sacrifice of Christ.

On the night before the Hebrews left Egypt, God said He would send death to the firstborn children of the Egyptians. This was a judgment from God, given because Pharaoh would not let the Hebrews go. That night, God told Moses to institute the Passover. God told Moses to have the Hebrews put the blood of a lamb on "the two side posts and on the upper door post" of their houses (Exodus 12:7). Then God said:
"And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt" (Exodus 12:13). "The Passover, type of Christ our Redeemer." The blood sacrifice continued, pointing forward to the Blood of Christ.

The Hebrew people left Egypt and went out into the wilderness. They came to Mount Sinai. Moses went up the mountain and God gave him the Ten Commandments, written "with the finger of God" on two tablets of stone (Exodus 31:18). The covenant of the Law was established with a blood sacrifice:
"And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words" (Exodus 24:8).

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul" (Leviticus 17:11).

ABOUT JESUS (what everything up til now has been pointing to)
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you…He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him" (John 6:53, 56). Jesus had said concerning His flesh that he would give it "for the life of the world" (John 6:51). Then He said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you" (John 6:53). "And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins"
(Matthew 26:27-28).

You must have the death of Christ to pay the penalty for your sin (Romans 5:10). But you must also have the Blood of Christ to cleanse you from sin (I John 1:7). You must have your sins paid for by His death, and you must have your sins washed, cleansed by His Blood.

These are the words of god and there is no other way around it. you either believe and have faith in god and his words or you dont.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Bandit

i love you Q. what is wrong with you, cant you say it back?

keep chasing people away.

DITTO! LOL

That in no way means I'm gonna stop being crochety ole' me...

[China Cat Sunflower]

You must have the death of Christ to pay the penalty for your sin (Romans 5:10). But you must also have the Blood of Christ to cleanse you from sin (I John 1:7). You must have your sins paid for by His death, and you must have your sins washed, cleansed by His Blood.

These are the words of god and there is no other way around it. you either believe and have faith in god and his words or you dont.

Well, there you go Cage. The fat one hath spoken!

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Bandit,

i also do not believe in the original sin doctrine, but i still see that blood Jesus shed was for the remission of sin & was necessary & like you say, that is what brought man & God back into loving favor. Every man is still accountable for his own doings.
God requiring innocent blood & God turning into a man- well, it does not add up the way it has been taught in church dogma. i think there is an answer that comes full circle, but i keep it to myself. too many traditions of men & barriers in the way.

First, I really appreciate your moderate stance. I too have a profound appreciation for Jewish thought. I find that the more I understand of it the more the Old Testament is illumined.

You seem reluctant, but I would really like to hear your take on the two issues you bring up in the above paragraph. One being a blood bought remission for sin without the original sin dogma. The other concerning Jesus as God-man (or not?). If you're up to it I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Thanks,

Chris

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Bandit,



First, I really appreciate your moderate stance. I too have a profound appreciation for Jewish thought. I find that the more I understand of it the more the Old Testament is illumined.

You seem reluctant, but I would really like to hear your take on the two issues you bring up in the above paragraph. One being a blood bought remission for sin without the original sin dogma. The other concerning Jesus as God-man (or not?). If you're up to it I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Thanks,

Chris

Can i ask (I'm asking anyway), why Christianity is so easy for others to talk about other faiths...as though Christians did not exist? Take it it the Judeasim board...

v/r

Q

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Well, there you go Cage. The fat one hath spoken!

Chris

Be very careful China...

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Bandit,



First, I really appreciate your moderate stance. I too have a profound appreciation for Jewish thought. I find that the more I understand of it the more the Old Testament is illumined.

You seem reluctant, but I would really like to hear your take on the two issues you bring up in the above paragraph. One being a blood bought remission for sin without the original sin dogma. The other concerning Jesus as God-man (or not?). If you're up to it I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Thanks,

Chris

as i see it, WHY is blood necessary has still not been answered.
a God who requires innocent blood sacrifices. but God did require it because He gave Jesus a commandment to lay down his life for us. Jesus did not want to suffer this way because He asked God if it were possible to remove the cup. hmmm

there is definately something missing & another deep cavern going on here than what appears on the surface that is for sure.
people are determined to stick God in a bottle & cap it & it is not possible. He is always miles ahead of us.

i too am fed up with the traditions of men & institutions that hammer the earth & say we cannot explore the scriptures & the richness of His glory & deepen our understanding- for we have only begun to scratch the surface of His infinite wisdom.

yourself, path, cage & the others who are searching for something deeper... that would be fine, but i will not debate the scriptures concerning this from an absolute traditional dogmatic perspective.
hit me up this fall or winter & we can discuss it in depth then.

have a nice weekend

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Can i ask (I'm asking anyway), why Christianity is so easy for others to talk about other faiths...as though Christians did not exist? Take it it the Judeasim board...

v/r

Q

Because Christianity is an amalgam of a number of different philosophical, spiritual, and metaphysical thought processes, not the least of which is Judaism. It's pretty hard to leave Judaism out of the discussion when Christianity has appropriated Jewish scripture, began as a Jewish sect, and is still steeped in Jewish traditions- very many of which it hardly seems to comprehend.

Now let me ask you a question: Why do you have such a control complex about this board? You don't seem to be able to seperate your role as moderator from your personal ideological ideosyncracies. With all due respect, why don't you just let the conversation flow ? We're all adults here.

Chris

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Because Christianity is an amalgam of a number of different philosophical, spiritual, and metaphysical thought processes, not the least of which is Judaism. It's pretty hard to leave Judaism out of the discussion when Christianity has appropriated Jewish scripture, began as a Jewish sect, and is still steeped in Jewish traditions- very many of which it hardly seems to comprehend.

Now let me ask you a question: Why do you have such a control complex about this board? You don't seem to be able to seperate your role as moderator from your personal ideological ideosyncracies. With all due respect, why don't you just let the conversation flow ? We're all adults here.

Chris

Because China Cat, this is the Christian forum. And as such I have the responsibility to ensure that this forum stays true to form.

nothing personal.

v/r

Q

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Because China Cat, this is the Christian forum. And as such I have the responsibility to ensure that this forum stays true to form.

nothing personal.

v/r

Q

Nothing personal on my end either Q. Have a nice day.

Chris

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Nothing personal on my end either Q. Have a nice day.

Chris

Thanks... I think I will

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Bandit

as i see it, WHY is blood necessary has still not been answered.
a God who requires innocent blood sacrifices. but God did require it because He gave Jesus a commandment to lay down his life for us. Jesus did not want to suffer this way because He asked God if it were possible to remove the cup. hmmm

there is definately something missing & another deep cavern going on here than what appears on the surface that is for sure.
people are determined to stick God in a bottle & cap it & it is not possible. He is always miles ahead of us.

i too am fed up with the traditions of men & institutions that hammer the earth & say we cannot explore the scriptures & the richness of His glory & deepen our understanding- for we have only begun to scratch the surface of His infinite wisdom.

yourself, path, cage & the others who are searching for something deeper... that would be fine, but i will not debate the scriptures concerning this from an absolute traditional dogmatic perspective.
hit me up this fall or winter & we can discuss it in depth then.

have a nice weekend

Well, that's nothing if not tantalizing Bandito! Whenever you're ready my friend.

And now...I've got beer to drink and golf to watch!

Chris