Why?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

It means humility, but it does not mean being a wimp.

Consider the sacrifice involved in fasting:

Hmmm, I've gone hungry before, but it was understood that "would" happen. Do you mean when there is plenty, to go without? If this is the case...what is the purpose? How does that bring us closer to God, and how does that effect or offset the concept of sacrifice?

v/r

Q

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Yes. Broken pride. Realization of our total dependence upon God.

luna

Kinda reminds me of St. John of the Cross and the "dark night of the soul."

Chris

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Kinda reminds me of St. John of the Cross and the "dark night of the soul."

Chris

Hmmm, hadn't thought about that. My first response is that the dark night is something just a bit different, the 'dark light.' Ha! The closest I got to reading St. John was Merton's The Ascent to Truth. But yes, you could be right. My sense was that the dark night is not so much about utter humility as it is about utter trust.

2 c,
luna

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Hmmm, I've gone hungry before, but it was understood that "would" happen. Do you mean when there is plenty, to go without? If this is the case...what is the purpose? How does that bring us closer to God, and how does that effect or offset the concept of sacrifice?

v/r

Q

I don't know Q. I'm just sharing my meditations on the subject of sacrifice. Christ sacrificed his all for us. We are to sacrifice our all for each other. Fasting is an outer sign of an inner reality. I personally don't think that one fasts to go into some kind of religious delerium, although things can happen when you get to the light-headed stage. We fast as a small sacrifice to remind us of our dependence upon God, His sacrifice for us, and our obligations to each other.

peace,
luna

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Cage!

Originally Posted by Cage

27. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28. But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

I don't see how I can NOT fall short of keeping this commandment, juan.

I'm not sure how to answer you, Cage.

Do I appreciate a good looking woman? Of course. Do I drool over every good looking woman in my mind at every opportunity? Can't say I do.

How many broken homes does it take to learn some lessons? How many ex-wives? How much child support and alimony? Some lessons are cheaper than others.

Not to mention, is a woman solely meant to be an object of desire? I am certain there are some women that play off of that tendency to make some men into fools. And if a man is fool enough to fall for it, he gets what he deserves.

Eye candy, nice. Odds are, you can't afford it. Look sure, but why even think about touching?

Even so, my point was more about the idea that we 'Need' Jesus to cover our shortcomings, and less about deliberate disobiedience. I'd like to think that I 'try', but in all honesty...I fail often, and I suspect that most people do as well.

I am not in the habit of suggesting someone read the Bible. Around here it just seems, a bit aggressive. But you are seeking, and you are asking probing questions. Read the book of Ecclesiastes, then let's talk. Especially the part about not being overly wise or sinning too much, or doing foolish things.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Hmmm, hadn't thought about that. My first response is that the dark night is something just a bit different, the 'dark light.' Ha! The closest I got to reading St. John was Merton's The Ascent to Truth. But yes, you could be right. My sense was that the dark night is not so much about utter humility as it is about utter trust.

2 c,
luna

Hmm, maybe you're right. I was kinda free-associating.

Chris

[Prober]

The interesting thing about fasting is that you realize with extreme clarity that were God to withdraw his blessings (et al) for even a short time the results would be painful. (Again with the dependance)

[juantoo3]

Equating fasting with sacrifice, I would have not thought to go there. Great point!

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by China Cat

Ah, dueling texts (insert banjo music).

But you see Mr./Mrs./Miss Prober, the keeping of the commandments is accomplished through the love of neighbor. Isn't that what the text is saying?

Chris

Originally Posted by Prober

To the contrary - the love of one's fellow man is the DEMONSTRATION of one's love to God, with the keeping of the commandments...(Mr. Prober)

Take three! Love of one's neighbor is accomplished because of and through the love of God.

nar nar- nar nar -nar nar nar nar nar....

luna (Ms. Moth)

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by =Cage

27. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28. But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

I don't see how I can NOT fall short of keeping this commandment, juan

I think it comes down to intent and motive. Do you really intend to bed this woman, or are you just admiring and/or fantasizing about her? Lust isn't just entertaining fantasies about someone who isn't your wife. Most times the thought is just as good as the thrill! I mean, is it really your intent to put out all the effort it would take to get her in the sack, or are you just fantasizing? That, to me is the crux of the biscuit.

I like some eye candy too, but what's far more important, and what I really want is to make my marriage work and give my kids the advantage of growing up with a mommy and daddy who live together and love each other. It's not that hard to keep it in my pants.

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Take three! Love of one's neighbor is accomplished because of and through the love of God.

nar nar- nar nar -nar nar nar nar nar....

luna (aka Ms. Moth)

Hey, who's the Bible scholar here?!

Chris

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Hey, who's the Bible scholar here?!

Chris

'Not I' said the little green moth. I am strictly a light-weight.

peace,
luna

[Prober]

As a mirror, yes!

[China Cat Sunflower]

Just an aside: Isn't it interesting how, on some rare occasions, you get to a kind of critical mass where a thread just starts humming for a magical little moment. This has been really fun. What fine conversation! What a feast of friends!

Chris

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Prober

As a mirror, yes!

Or a channel?