Why do people try to change Christianity?

[The Jaded Fool]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Discernment.

Yes discerment helps... but IMHO there are just some things we will not know...

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by The Jaded Fool

Umm... I guess I am not really following the logic here... if Matthew 24 was for the weak ones... why was it ( according to both the book of Mark and Matthew ) only spoken to the disciples??

It seems to me that the disciples here wanted some more details about the coming trials and they asked jesus... and he told them... it all seems pretty straight forward... even if the english translation...

Perhaps what we could say is that they were "weak at the time" but grew stronger after Jesus died and rose again because they then had a renewed sense of purpose.

I believe what was said in Matthew 24 applies for all of us in our spiritual journey as Christians. In today's world, this message would be particularly relevant for all new and beginning Christians. The "trials and tribulations" are things we'd all have to face somehow, but what it says about "false prophets" I believe is about us not having a sense of purpose, or at least "the right sense of purpose." Over time, as we mature in our journey, we get an idea of what this sense of purpose might be, and become more resistant to "deviations" from that purpose. The message of "false prophets" becomes less relevant as our understanding grows about the purpose of Christianity.

The trouble is, "over-resistance" can lead to "close-mindedness" to the "wrong things." A possible precursor to judgmentalism and "puffed up" feelings of superiority. We start growing planks in our eyes. We can suppress one "evil" but create another.

Over-resistance -- that is, extreme close-mindedness is just as bad as extreme open-mindedness. The extremely open-minded, on one hand, embrace everything, while the extremely close-minded close their minds to valuable experiences. The extremely close-minded can be "so devout" that they deem as "un-Christian" or "non-Christian" things that were done by someone genuinely Christian.

Their lives are manipulated by rules that they make for themselves. The extremely close-minded, I believe, might actually be the people most vulnerable to "the Great Taboos . . . " (so to speak) as they are so thoroughly manipulated they'd be easily manipulated if there was someone who knew how to poke-and-prod and twist their rigorous belief system. They could even be fooled into thinking "lying," "murder" and that certain "sexual sins" are ok -- even healthy and good!!! The result is rather like what Paul talks about in 1 Timothy 4:2 -- their "consciences are seared as if with a hot iron." They are so closed-minded about right and wrong that they no longer understand the difference between right and wrong. A group so devout at "being right" could be manipulated into "being in the wrong."

Ever heard of the "Children of God?" It was taught by a guy named David Berg who said "flirty fishing" was ok. "Flirty fishing" is a way of achieving conversions by bribing people with sex. Sounds Christian and godly from one perspective . . . Sex to bring people to God!!! Wow. That must be good. Too good to be true. Fantastic and sensational. And Jesus did say whoever is not for me must be against me. (Is that ironic?)

It's not necessarily "liberal Christians" that are led to "false concepts." Actually, the ones who are most devout often set themselves up to be "led astray" because they allow others to manipulate them. Trying too hard to be Christian can sometimes lead to something "non-Christian."

There is health devotion and healthy skepticism. There is also over-devotion and over-skepticism (extreme closed-mindedness). Then there is fence-sitting, which can be either legal or illegal.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by The Jaded Fool

Yes discerment helps... but IMHO there are just some things we will not know...

It gets better with knowledge, education and particularly -- experience. Open-mindedness to carefully chosen concepts and closed-mindedness to other carefully chosen concepts (healthy skepticism). You can't learn healthy skepticism if you're not open-minded. But you'd be out of line if "anything goes."

Discernment could be confused with "picking and choosing."

Btw, I like your avatar. It makes me laugh to see a picture of Jesus laughing.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

Discernment could be confused with "picking and choosing."

Do tell...
(You know discernment actually eliminates that.)

[The Jaded Fool]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

Perhaps what we could say is that they were "weak at the time" but grew stronger after Jesus died and rose again because they then had a renewed sense of purpose.

I believe what was said in Matthew 24 applies for all of us in our spiritual journey as Christians. In today's world, this message would be particularly relevant for all new and beginning Christians. The "trials and tribulations" are things we'd all have to face somehow, but what it says about "false prophets" I believe is about us not having a sense of purpose, or at least "the right sense of purpose." Over time, as we mature in our journey, we get an idea of what this sense of purpose might be, and become more resistant to "deviations" from that purpose. The message of "false prophets" becomes less relevant as our understanding grows about the purpose of Christianity.

The trouble is, "over-resistance" can lead to "close-mindedness" to the "wrong things." A possible precursor to judgmentalism and "puffed up" feelings of superiority. We start growing planks in our eyes. We can suppress one "evil" but create another.

Over-resistance -- that is, extreme close-mindedness is just as bad as extreme open-mindedness. The extremely open-minded, on one hand, embrace everything, while the extremely close-minded close their minds to valuable experiences. The extremely close-minded can be "so devout" that they deem as "un-Christian" or "non-Christian" things that were done by someone genuinely Christian.

Their lives are manipulated by rules that they make for themselves. The extremely close-minded, I believe, might actually be the people most vulnerable to "the Great Taboos . . . " (so to speak) as they are so thoroughly manipulated they'd be easily manipulated if there was someone who knew how to poke-and-prod and twist their rigorous belief system. They could even be fooled into thinking "lying," "murder" and that certain "sexual sins" are ok -- even healthy and good!!! The result is rather like what Paul talks about in 1 Timothy 4:2 -- their "consciences are seared as if with a hot iron." They are so closed-minded about right and wrong that they no longer understand the difference between right and wrong. A group so devout at "being right" could be manipulated into "being in the wrong."

Ever heard of the "Children of God?" It was taught by a guy named David Berg who said "flirty fishing" was ok. "Flirty fishing" is a way of achieving conversions by bribing people with sex. Sounds Christian and godly from one perspective . . . Sex to bring people to God!!! Wow. That must be good. Too good to be true. Fantastic and sensational. And Jesus did say whoever is not for me must be against me. (Is that ironic?)

It's not necessarily "liberal Christians" that are led to "false concepts." Actually, the ones who are most devout often set themselves up to be "led astray" because they allow others to manipulate them. Trying too hard to be Christian can sometimes lead to something "non-Christian."

There is health devotion and healthy skepticism. There is also over-devotion and over-skepticism (extreme closed-mindedness). Then there is fence-sitting, which can be either legal or illegal.

Very nice...

[The Jaded Fool]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

It gets better with knowledge, education and particularly -- experience. Open-mindedness to carefully chosen concepts and closed-mindedness to other carefully chosen concepts (healthy skepticism). You can't learn healthy skepticism if you're not open-minded. But you'd be out of line if "anything goes."

Discernment could be confused with "picking and choosing."

Btw, I like your avatar. It makes me laugh to see a picture of Jesus laughing.

Thanx... you might like this...

The Laughing Christ