Why do people try to change Christianity? - Page 5

17th Angel · 11-13-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Please do not refer the Westboro Baptist Church as Baptists. They do not represent anything even remotely Baptist. They are not affiliated with any Baptist organization or denomination. They are a cult, plain and simple. They are self-righteous bigots with a thousand planks in their eyes. They are unforgiving and callous. They are NOT confused. They know damn well what they are doing. They have filled themselves with hate. They have no mercy and are just a bad as the extremist Islamic terroists that threaten our soldiers overseas. Really, it is the ravings of one Fred Phelps. His church consists primarily of members of his own family.

Quite simply, they are not Christians in any biblical sense of the word.

They call themselves christians though... Just like you or thousands of other people call themselves christians but you all live in a different way to each other... I am not saying they are right. Just using as an example.

wil · 11-13-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Why do people try to change Christianity?

Seriously if people do not like Christianity why don't people just find another religion instead of trying to carve Christianity up to fit them?

Do people do it constantly to Islam and Judaism and I just do not see it?

I mean the Bible and Christ are about the only 2 things Christianity has right?

Well if people do not want to believe those then how can they even call themselves Christians?

Where would you draw the line on using that classification?

I don't think anyone is trying to change Christianity they are all trying to find it. With 5 major divisions in Judaism and 72 sects of Islam, I'd say fairly clearly there are differences of opinion in all religions. Are all of us going to just decide to become Ethiopian Christians...isn't that the longest form of continuing Christianity? Or are we going to accept the universal form of Christianity as compiled by the scholars 1700 years, Catholicism?

It appears to me that folks investigate the current understandings by the groups that are out there and either choose one or keep searching and studying...in the process some find new information or new revelation, and this always seems to be accepted by a few, and discounted by the majority, and we now have yet another new version of Christianity, a new sect/denomination...this has been going on for 2000 years and I for one don't see it changing anytime in the near future.

Are you thinking of joining my understanding so we can all be on the same page...hmmm I think not...yet most think it apropo for others to see it there way....interesting how it works...and how well it proves that this will be continuing...

Dondi · 11-13-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

They call themselves christians though... Just like you or thousands of other people call themselves christians but you all live in a different way to each other... I am not saying they are right. Just using as an example.

A very poor example.

Saltmeister · 11-13-2006, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage

btw, I'm one of those who pick and choose when it comes to the Bible. Why is the Bible viewed as bieng w/o error, anyway? Does it say it in the Bible, or is this something pushed by the leaders of the Churches?

It happens because we're afraid of what people will do. Will Christians start leaving the faith if they start believing it's not 100% perfect? Will non-Christians start laughing and making fun of us and saying, "Hey I told you so!!!!!" ?

This behaviour is driven by fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of not knowing whether to trust what the Bible says when it isn't 100% perfect!!!!

The way I see it, the Bible is just a means to an end. Its purpose was to remind us what the early Christians believed. Perfection isn't necessary. The Texts only need to say what they need to say to convey the experiences of the early Christians to us -- nothing more. The most important thing in Christianity and the Bible is Christ. If there is anything that needs to be defended and promoted in Christianity it's Christ, not the Bible itself. Nowhere does it say in the Bible, "I am the Bible. Defend me!!! My words are true!!! My words are perfect!!! I am free from error. I have not been corrupted. Beware of the false teachers that tell you I have been corrupted. Have nothing to do with them. Those who profane me will be cast into the deepest, most scorching of fires!!!!"

Sounds a bit like the Book of Origin and the Ori in StarGate SG-1.

It sounds to me that Christianity isn't about defending the Bible. Methinks Christianity can, in theory, exist without the Bible. Christianity is about Jesus Christ. The concept of Jesus Christ is independent of any written text. The concept of Jesus Christ existed before any written text in the New Testament. What we have in the Bible is a reminder of what Jesus Christ meant to people from earlier times. The Bible is here to remind; it is not a magic formula for enlightenment.

The Bible itself records Jesus as saying, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. Nobody comes to the Father except through Me." The words say it all!!!

No, the Bible is not the Book of Origin, and Jesus Christ is not one of the Ori. This is not StarGate SG-1 here!!!

I don't require the Bible to be 100% perfect because I simply don't believe Christianity is emphasising the perfection of a Written Text. I see Christianity's purpose as conveying the message and concept of Jesus Christ. The Texts are nothing but beacons leading us to that concept.

Consider Colossians 2:20-22.

Quote:

Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Colossians 2:20-22

When we say that people have to believe in the 100% perfection of the Bible to be Christian, aren't we making rules? The 100% perfection of the Bible is something Christians have been influenced to believe -- by Enlightenment and Modernity -- the idea of something perfect as conveying a message from God. But isn't this like what Paul means by "the basic principles of this world," that this is what the modern world would want to believe, due to the implications of modernity, which believes in magic formulas?

The modern world is driven by industries that design, engineer and deploy products. Mathematics and science is used to achieve the aesthetic elegance, quality and utilitarian efficiency of commercial products today. The modern world could well be shaped to believe that the Bible is like a product designed, engineered and deployed, much like modern industries work today, to show off the wisdom and intelligence of God!!! My point? People think of the Bible as a product deployed to excite and provoke us, much like something manufactured in modern industry. The Bible is just like everything else -- something we buy and sell.

Strangely enough, though, it isn't non-Christians, but Christians that reinforce this way of thinking.

So what's the real purpose of the Bible? To explain Jesus Christ to future generations. The Bible becomes useless once this goal has been realised. Once you have discovered Jesus Christ you can throw your Bible in the trash bin because you have found God.

(Nah just joking. Human memory can be fickle.) But honestly, do we really think we'll need the Bible in the New Heaven and New Earth which God is preparing for us?

The Bible, just like everything else, perishes with use (as Paul says in Colossians 2:20-22).

So let nobody deceive you about the purpose of the Bible. It's purpose was simply to remind us of the person of Jesus Christ. It doesn't need to be 100% perfect.

If we do require the Bible to be 100% perfect, we may well have chosen to be Christian for the wrong reasons!!! So what happens if someone convinces us otherwise? Does our faith depend on the perfection/imperfection of a Written Text or the reasonableness/unreasonableness of the concept of Jesus Christ? Which one do you pursue?

17th Angel · 11-13-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

A very poor example.

But, nether the less... an example of a group of christians.

Saltmeister · 11-13-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

I don't think anyone is trying to change Christianity they are all trying to find it.

Yes wil, I think you just said what we all needed to hear!!!

We're all trying to find Christ. Trouble is we can't quite capture him. He keeps slipping out of our hands. Maybe Christ was never meant to be captured. But maybe it's because in our spiritual journey Christ is leading us to God and we just can't stop where we are -- we have to keep on moving. In the process we're all changing, and that's why our Christianity appears to change as well.

We find him, and then we have to find him again . . .

Dondi · 11-13-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

Nowhere does it say in the Bible, "I am the Bible. Defend me!!! My words are true!!! My words are perfect!!!

"The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple." - Psalm 19:7

"For the word of the LORD is right and true; he is faithful in all he does." - Psalm 33:4

"Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever." - Psalm 119:60

"I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." - Psalm 138:2

Quahom1 · 11-13-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Please do not refer the Westboro Baptist Church as Baptists. They do not represent anything even remotely Baptist. They are not affiliated with any Baptist organization or denomination. They are a cult, plain and simple. They are self-righteous bigots with a thousand planks in their eyes. They are unforgiving and callous. They are NOT confused. They know damn well what they are doing. They have filled themselves with hate. They have no mercy and are just a bad as the extremist Islamic terroists that threaten our soldiers overseas. Really, it is the ravings of one Fred Phelps. His church consists primarily of members of his own family.

Quite simply, they are not Christians in any biblical sense of the word.

But they call themselves Baptists and Christians...one black eye coming up...

17th Angel · 11-13-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

But they call themselves Baptists and Christians...one black eye coming up...

But you can now see and understand how people make mistakes? And takes things from the bible and just turn it from how jah says... Also we can see why some people wouldn't turn to being a christian.. or "change" things in christianity because of experiences they see from people claiming to be of that faith.

Quahom1 · 11-13-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

I don't think anyone is trying to change Christianity they are all trying to find it. With 5 major divisions in Judaism and 72 sects of Islam, I'd say fairly clearly there are differences of opinion in all religions. Are all of us going to just decide to become Ethiopian Christians...isn't that the longest form of continuing Christianity? Or are we going to accept the universal form of Christianity as compiled by the scholars 1700 years, Catholicism?

It appears to me that folks investigate the current understandings by the groups that are out there and either choose one or keep searching and studying...in the process some find new information or new revelation, and this always seems to be accepted by a few, and discounted by the majority, and we now have yet another new version of Christianity, a new sect/denomination...this has been going on for 2000 years and I for one don't see it changing anytime in the near future.

Are you thinking of joining my understanding so we can all be on the same page...hmmm I think not...yet most think it apropo for others to see it there way....interesting how it works...and how well it proves that this will be continuing...

I disagree. Many have found it, and some want to take it away. Consider this Wil. Have you ever met a person solidly grounded in Christianity, quiet but unmoveable? No matter what happened, what was said or what was done, that person didn't flinch? Absolutely no fear...

I have met such a person. And I aspired to get what that person had. That is what the enemy is afraid of. More people will aspire to get the same sense of peace and calm, and understanding.

The Beatles pegged it square on with their song "Fool on the hill".

Quahom1 · 11-13-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

But you can now see and understand how people make mistakes? And takes things from the bible and just turn it from how jah says... Also we can see why some people wouldn't turn to being a christian.. or "change" things in christianity because of experiences they see from people claiming to be of that faith.

"A man is not known by his title, but by his deeds, and his words...there and only there is honor before God".

"my dad"

17th Angel · 11-13-2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

"A man is not known by his title, but by his deeds, and his words...there and only there is honor before God".

"my dad"

Thats your dad's quote??

Quahom1 · 11-13-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Thats your dad's quote??

yeah

17th Angel · 11-13-2006, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

yeah

Words indeed of value and wisedom

RevKelly · 11-13-2006, 03:24 PM

17th Angel,

Here's a little something that might make things make more sense about the Bible.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

That would include any verse in the Bible. There are over 300 inconsistencies in the Bible. I have wondered if they are there intentionally just to see if we can get 1 Thessalonians 5:21 right. It's shown me that Chastity is wrong. Chastity turns you away from Love; therefore, it turns you away from God. Which makes the Catholic Priests dead in the water. That one has always bothered me. Gee, let's take the people that believe in God most and turn them into non-breeders. Yeah, right, that makes sense. This coming from the country that spawned the Mob.

You'll notice that the only Book in the Bible that says not to change a word of it is Revelation.

Peace,

Kelly
P.S. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 if applied to the actions of a human is a non-mathamatical theorem to determine right and wrong actions. Here's an example:

Love is Good True or False
Hate is Good True or False
Joy and Happiness are Good True or False
Misery and Despair are Good True or False
Mercy and Compassion are Good True or False
Cruelty and Malice are Good True or False
Patience is Good True or False
Outrage is Good True or False
Courage is Good True or False
Terror is Good True or False

I believe this is how Jesus saw Truth from False. Apply the same to the Bible and you have the Answer.