Why do people try to change Christianity?

[RevKelly]

Interesting. This is what the King James version says:

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

These are the words of Paul the Apostle. Does that contradict anything that Jesus said? Which version are you reading?

EDIT: Unfortunately, my version doesn't say the same as yours. Back to the drawing board until I can find a more precise translation. Still doesn't mean we should Hate or Judge anyone.

[Dor]

Originally Posted by RevKelly

Interesting. This is what the King James version says:

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

These are the words of Paul the Apostle. Does that contradict anything that Jesus said? Which version are you reading?

EDIT: Unfortunately, my version doesn't say the same as yours. Back to the drawing board until I can find a more precise translation. Still doesn't mean we should Hate or Judge anyone.

Yours does say the same thing. Lets see even if you can not see homosexual in the KJV quote. Tell me how it does not still fit in that quote under the fornicator or adulter?

Find what Jesus said about marriage. Try Matthew 19 or Mark 10.

And did I say we were supposed to hate anyone? No I did not think so.
Did I say we were supposed to judge them. Nope I dont think so.
I also did not say I had to lie to people and tell them things to make them feel good.

Why not just go by what the bible says. Dont hate people but dont change things to make them feel better.

[kiwimac]

Because, friend, the Bible is not at all as clear as you are trying to convince us it is with regard to homosexuality.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

Because, friend, the Bible is not at all as clear as you are trying to convince us it is with regard to homosexuality.

Actually it is quite specific. It doesn't address the person, but the act of the person. It also ticked God off enough that He took out a couple of towns because of it. I'd say that is pretty specific in and of itself.

And btw, what does this have to do with changing Christianity? (asked to all in general)

[Francis king]

well then, all us fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminates, and self abusers are going to hell. Jesus had long hair, did'nt he? Does that mean Jesus was effeminate too?

You see, to me, I think we miss the point. We want to change christianity, not so we can "sin" at will, but we want to do it to make christianity more in line with how we feel jesus would be, today. We are intelligent and rational beings, and we believe Jesus would be too.

We have access to great philosophies, books, ideas. We want christianity to be relevant to us, in the 21st century. People are turning away from the church in droves, and all because they do not feel it has this relevance for them that it had for their grandfathers.

So, who would Jesus be today?

Would we have Jesus "A", a man who was intolerant of other's spirituality. Intolerant of homosexuals. Intolerant of many things, yet who pretended to be nice and sweet for votes, all dressed up in a nylon suit, handling snakes? Because lets not forget, it says in the bible that we should handle poisonous snakes.

Or would we have Jesus "B", who recycles his trash, is concerned about the AIDS pandemic and campaigns against social and global injustices?

Would Jesus would still knock about with whores and tax collectors? Would he still stay the ppl from stoning the adulteress, would he still preach love, tolerance, and compassion, would he suggest we love our neighbours, turn the other cheek, be decent, et cetera?

Jesus "A" wouldn't. Jesus "A" thinks him and his ppl are the chosen ones, which infers the rest of us can go to hell. Jesus "A" is just like his father- arrogant, thinks he knows it all, wants to punish ppl for their ignorance and idiocy, and far removed from the people.

Yet Jesus "B" would still hang around with whores. Maybe he wouldn't be a fisherman, or the son of a carpenter, maybe he would be a drugs worker. Maybe he would help out with the soup kitchen run. What ever he'd be, he'd be in there, in the thick of it, fighting the good fight.

The NT is supposed to be perceived as "good news". I don't see much in the way of good news here. I choose to take on board those aspects of the bible that resonate for me, that feel to me to be the message of Christ.

and that's why some of us want to change the bible. To bring it more in line with what we perceive to be the true message of christianity. To get rid of the bad news, and spread the good news.

[Dor]

Originally Posted by Francis king

well then, all us fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminates, and self abusers are going to hell. Jesus had long hair, did'nt he? Does that mean Jesus was effeminate too?

You see, to me, I think we miss the point. We want to change christianity, not so we can "sin" at will, but we want to do it to make christianity more in line with how we feel jesus would be, today. We are intelligent and rational beings, and we believe Jesus would be too.

We have access to great philosophies, books, ideas. We want christianity to be relevant to us, in the 21st century. People are turning away from the church in droves, and all because they do not feel it has this relevance for them that it had for their grandfathers.

So, who would Jesus be today?

Would we have Jesus "A", a man who was intolerant of other's spirituality. Intolerant of homosexuals. Intolerant of many things, yet who pretended to be nice and sweet for votes, all dressed up in a nylon suit, handling snakes? Because lets not forget, it says in the bible that we should handle poisonous snakes.

Or would we have Jesus "B", who recycles his trash, is concerned about the AIDS pandemic and campaigns against social and global injustices?

Would Jesus would still knock about with whores and tax collectors? Would he still stay the ppl from stoning the adulteress, would he still preach love, tolerance, and compassion, would he suggest we love our neighbours, turn the other cheek, be decent, et cetera?

Jesus "A" wouldn't. Jesus "A" thinks him and his ppl are the chosen ones, which infers the rest of us can go to hell. Jesus "A" is just like his father- arrogant, thinks he knows it all, wants to punish ppl for their ignorance and idiocy, and far removed from the people.

Yet Jesus "B" would still hang around with whores. Maybe he wouldn't be a fisherman, or the son of a carpenter, maybe he would be a drugs worker. Maybe he would help out with the soup kitchen run. What ever he'd be, he'd be in there, in the thick of it, fighting the good fight.

The NT is supposed to be perceived as "good news". I don't see much in the way of good news here. I choose to take on board those aspects of the bible that resonate for me, that feel to me to be the message of Christ.

and that's why some of us want to change the bible. To bring it more in line with what we perceive to be the true message of christianity. To get rid of the bad news, and spread the good news.

What you fail to see is Jesus was a combonation of A and B and he still is a combonation of those and will always be.

See he is unchanging.

[RevKelly]

I'm still trying to find if 'effeminate' means anything more than 'male prostitutes' which is what a couple of other translations say it is. Too many versions...

Plus, there was an article a while back that showed that an earthquake in the location that Gamorrah was what most likely caused the destruction. (I'll see if I can find it) God's Will? Or tectonic plate instability combined with a mudslide? I personally don't believe in the Old Testament version of God. God lets you make your own mistakes. IMHO

Peace,

Kelly

[Dor]

Originally Posted by RevKelly

I'm still trying to find if 'effeminate' means anything more than 'male prostitutes' which is what a couple of other translations say it is. Too many versions...

Plus, there was an article a while back that showed that an earthquake in the location that Gamorrah was what most likely caused the destruction. (I'll see if I can find it) God's Will? Or tectonic plate instability combined with a mudslide? I personally don't believe in the Old Testament version of God. God lets you make your own mistakes. IMHO

Peace,

Kelly

effiminate.
MalakosNonePhonetic SpellingParts of Speechmal-ak-os' Adjective Definition

1. soft, soft to the touch
2. metaph. in a bad sense
   1. effeminate
      1. of a catamite
      2. of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man
      3. of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness
      4. of a male prostitute

abusers of themselves with mankind,
ArsenokoitesNonePhonetic SpellingParts of Speechar-sen-ok-oy'-tace Noun Masculine Definition

1. one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual

There ya go.

[Dor]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

And btw, what does this have to do with changing Christianity? (asked to all in general)

Absolutely nothing except showing one of the things being changed.

[Quahom1]

[quote=Francis king;79502]

well then, all us fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminates, and self abusers are going to hell. Jesus had long hair, did'nt he? Does that mean Jesus was effeminate too?

Didn't know long hair meant effeminant. Don't know if He wore His hair long either.

You see, to me, I think we miss the point. We want to change christianity, not so we can "sin" at will, but we want to do it to make christianity more in line with how we feel jesus would be, today. We are intelligent and rational beings, and we believe Jesus would be too.

Bible says God is timeless, so I guess that means Jesus would feel the same way now as He did then, and will do so tomorrow.

We have access to great philosophies, books, ideas. We want christianity to be relevant to us, in the 21st century. People are turning away from the church in droves, and all because they do not feel it has this relevance for them that it had for their grandfathers.

So, who would Jesus be today?

That really is a shame for all those people. They should realize one can't go online and order up God, with customized details like a Toyota. He is who He is, and it is we who must adapt to Him and His ways...not the other way around.

Would we have Jesus "A", a man who was intolerant of other's spirituality. Intolerant of homosexuals. Intolerant of many things, yet who pretended to be nice and sweet for votes, all dressed up in a nylon suit, handling snakes? Because lets not forget, it says in the bible that we should handle poisonous snakes.

Or would we have Jesus "B", who recycles his trash, is concerned about the AIDS pandemic and campaigns against social and global injustices?

Jesus looks at a man's spirit, he doesn't have time to bother with all the baggage we carry around.

Would Jesus would still knock about with whores and tax collectors? Would he still stay the ppl from stoning the adulteress, would he still preach love, tolerance, and compassion, would he suggest we love our neighbours, turn the other cheek, be decent, et cetera?

Jesus is the tax collectors and the whores, and the adultresses and you and me. He said so. He's not the one who is prejudiced...we are.

Jesus "A" wouldn't. Jesus "A" thinks him and his ppl are the chosen ones, which infers the rest of us can go to hell. Jesus "A" is just like his father- arrogant, thinks he knows it all, wants to punish ppl for their ignorance and idiocy, and far removed from the people.

Yes and no. He and His people are the chosen ones. Who the chosen are depends upon the people themselves. The rest can go to hell. Jesus is like His Father and does know it all. He doesn't have to punish people, they do that quite well on their own. He's trying to take our pain away, but we won't let Him. He can't be too far removed from the people since the Holy Spirit is here with us right now...

Yet Jesus "B" would still hang around with whores. Maybe he wouldn't be a fisherman, or the son of a carpenter, maybe he would be a drugs worker. Maybe he would help out with the soup kitchen run. What ever he'd be, he'd be in there, in the thick of it, fighting the good fight.

Are you?...in the thick of it, fighting the good fight? If so, then Jesus is there too. If not, then Jesus is having to do it alone.

The NT is supposed to be perceived as "good news". I don't see much in the way of good news here. I choose to take on board those aspects of the bible that resonate for me, that feel to me to be the message of Christ.

That is called wishful thinking, and also denial. It's hard to look in the mirror without acknowledging the truth of our flaws...the bible is that mirror.

and that's why some of us want to change the bible. To bring it more in line with what we perceive to be the true message of christianity. To get rid of the bad news, and spread the good news.

You're in good company. The JWs, the Scientologists, the Mormons, the UUs...and a whole bunch of others wanted to do the same thing. So they did.

but when they did, they pretty much threw the baby out with the bath water...just not quite the same after that.

v/r

Joshua

[RevKelly]

Well, thanks for the Matthew 19, Dor. Somebody's going to be awfully ticked off when they end up in Hell for interfering with my Marriage. Where are you finding the Greek?

[kiwimac]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Actually it is quite specific. It doesn't address the person, but the act of the person. It also ticked God off enough that He took out a couple of towns because of it. I'd say that is pretty specific in and of itself.

And btw, what does this have to do with changing Christianity? (asked to all in general)

Actually, according to Isaiah and Ezekiel, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of economic Injustice rather than any sexual sin. Moreover I would argue that the OT statements have more to do with Ritual prostitution than homosexuality and the NT, Pederasty.

Kiwimac

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

Actually, according to Isaiah and Ezekiel, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of economic Injustice rather than any sexual sin. Moreover I would argue that the OT statements have more to do with Ritual prostitution than homosexuality and the NT, Pederasty.

Kiwimac

they tried to gang rape Gods heavenly host....

[Cage]

Many are searching the scriptures and are pulling out what resinates as truth, and leaving what goes against the very spirit of God, as Christ declared it.

Some Christians are taking great strides towards the light, and away from the darkness. I can see it; I see it almost everyday. These are the ones accused of "changing" Christianity in OP. I say some [many actually] have found a simpler way of approaching, finding, and accepting God through Jesus, and the Bible.

The all or nothing attitude is dangerous; we can verify this by taking a look at Christian history, yes?

What is wrong with sifting through the Bible, and accepting that which is good, and rejecting the wrong...The things that contradict the way God is presentd by Jesus, and his followers?

Love is not complicated, imo...


Peace,

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by RevKelly

Well, thanks for the Matthew 19, Dor. Somebody's going to be awfully ticked off when they end up in Hell for interfering with my Marriage. Where are you finding the Greek?

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: John 1:1;;

That might help.