Why Do You Believe?

[Plaidback]

Originally Posted by kabir

I'm a follower of Meher Baba. Baba teaches that all religions are equal, but was adamant about not starting one around Him, and not trying to convert others. There is no church, no rituals, no tithe, and no group consensus about how to follow Baba. It's just the individual doing his or her best to love God and humanity through Baba's discourses, so it's not really a religion per se, just a way of life.
I believe in Meher Baba because He has drawn me to Him through no effort on my or anyone else's part, and His words makes sense in my mind, heart, and soul. That's really the closest I can explain in words something that's beyond words. I hope that helps...

I feel you, and have never even heard about Mr. Baba. All I can tell You, is
that Everything can be described with words, everything.
There is only one truth, and the only Man, whose every single word He've
said, was the truth, was Jesus from Nazareth.

[Plaidback]

Originally Posted by dauer

I use a Jewish reality map because it's what I have grown into
Dauer

Can you please tell me what is " Jewish reality map " ?
And what is difference between a Jew, and "every other" Human ?

much respect and thanks !

[dauer]

Pb, we all use different reality maps, even one Jew and another, or one Christian and another. It's the way we make sense of the world. All of them overlap, most definitely, but they are also all unique. And a non-Jew is not going to think in terms of Jewish concepts, terminology, or mythology, nor are they going to shape their lives with Jewish ritual. All of this helps me plot out the world inch by inch, like placing a jar in Tenessee.

Dauer

[Plaidback]

Originally Posted by dauer

Pb, we all use different reality maps, even one Jew and another, or one Christian and another. It's the way we make sense of the world. All of them overlap, most definitely, but they are also all unique. And a non-Jew is not going to think in terms of Jewish concepts, terminology, or mythology, nor are they going to shape their lives with Jewish ritual. All of this helps me plot out the world inch by inch, like placing a jar in Tenessee.

Dauer

Maybe it's just me who see that you mixing Beliefs with Reality.
Apart from Beliefs, we are all Humans, and we are ALL submitted to dimension
we call Law of Nature ( you feel me ? , you eat kosher food and you die,I eat
garbage and I will die 2), which is One, Only, and Ultimate Reality.

Now in "Reality" that Jews live, One and Only God wrote Love Letter to them
and to them Only, so If I am not Jew, I am an Idiot, who will never find out
what is Life all about.
Which other group of People, besides Nazi's and " White sumpremacist ", have similar " Reality Map " ?

much respect !

P.S : my Knowledge of what is Judaism, was taken from communication with
Jews @ www.torah.org

And also, I have no Idea why some People feel that there is Anything that
Jews have to do with World today ??
How can Nation who can not take care of their Backyard, have any Influence
over what is going on with the rest of the Planet ??

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Plaidback

much respect !

And also, I have no Idea why some People feel that there is Anything that
Jews have to do with World today ??
How can Nation who can not take care of their Backyard, have any Influence
over what is going on with the rest of the Planet ??

I don't see much respect there at all. Was that an attempt at irony?

Regards,
Scott

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Plaidback

And also, I have no Idea why some People feel that there is Anything that
Jews have to do with World today ??
How can Nation who can not take care of their Backyard, have any Influence
over what is going on with the rest of the Planet ??

because the bible is true & God will have His way whether you like it or not.
much truth!

[dauer]

Maybe it's just me who see that you mixing Beliefs with Reality.

I don't have many religious beliefs. That's what I said in my first post. I'm an agnostic. You're using a very narrow definition of the word reality. Someone who believes everything is God and someone who believes that the world is inherently dirty experience the world in very different ways. The same is true for smaller beliefs as well. Are you familiar with the poem, "I placed a jar in Tenessee"?

Now in "Reality" that Jews live, One and Only God wrote Love Letter to them
and to them Only, so If I am not Jew, I am an Idiot, who will never find out
what is Life all about.

I'm not an Orthodox Jew, so you're barking up the wrong tree, and even among Orthodox Jews you're still barking up the wrong tree. I'm a Jewish Renewal Jew. Read here:

http://www.aleph.org/principles.html

Those are ideas that are closer to my thinking. I'm not bothering with the rest of your post as it was entirely off topic. If you want to learn some answers about Judaism instead of going by what you think you know, start asking questions in the Judaism part of this website because the information you got was either insufficiently delivered or insufficiently received.

Dauer

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by Plaidback

Maybe it's just me who see that you mixing Beliefs with Reality.

I don't believe humans have any access to raw, unvarnished reality. We interprit through our sense what they are allowed to share and our interpritation is highly dependent on our social situation and norms. Here's some quotes:

"Experiments reported in 1966 by Segall, Campbell and Herskovitz suggested that the Müller-Lyer illusion[where two equal length lines have arrows at the end making an illusion to some they are different lengths] may be absent or reduced amongst people who grow up in certain environments. They tested some Zulu people in South Africa who, at the time, lived in circular huts with arched doorways and had little experience of Western rectangular buildings. The Zulus seemed less affected by the Müller-Lyer illusion."

"Segall, Campbell and Herskovits (1966) found that people who lived in very open rural environments tended to be more subject to the horizontal-vertical illusion[where two equal lines are placed one veritcally on the other] than others."

"The anthropologist Colin Turnbull described what happened in the former Congo in the 1950s when a BaMbuti pygmy, used in living in the dense Ituri forest (which had only small clearings), went with him to the plains:

And then he saw the buffalo, still grazing lazily several miles away, far down below. He turned to me and said, 'What insects are those?'
At first I hardly understood, then I realized that in the forest vision is so limited that there is no great need to make an automatic allowance for distance when judging size. Out here in the plains, Kenge was looking for the first time over apparently unending miles of unfamiliar grasslands, with not a tree worth the name to give him any basis for comparison...

When I told Kenge that the insects were buffalo, he roared with laughter and told me not to tell such stupid lies. (Turnbull 1963, 217)"

While these are examples I do not think they fully define the problem. All the sense are colored by what we experience and do on an every day basis.

Logic and reason are also not capable of getting at raw unvarnished reality, otherwise we would have no need for theories, and conjecture. We would just perceive the truth.

Nor are miraculous experiences a key to raw reality experienced. Near death experiences are to be found in all cultures. Each person tends to see the religious Founder of their own Faith, especially if the norm of that region, as the Welcomer, or "Being of light" - here's one mostly looking at Jesus, but here's a Hindu, Muslim, American Indian, Buddhist, Jewish, and Baha'i... why I even see I, Brian had one ((btw, you may be interested to read a whole book from the Baha'i pov about such things)) - I don't believe these variations are pure cultural blindness and there is no Welcomer. I am alittle unsure Who is doing the welcoming - it could be each different person or one person appearing and seen as what the seer wishes. The point is that several such experiences appear incompatible and yet they are the same generally.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Originally Posted by Plaidback

People believe because they are not interested in Truth.

That may be true of some people, but i think that most peoples' belief is a way of seeking the truth that science cannot provide.

[Plaidback]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

I don't see much respect there at all. Was that an attempt at irony?

Regards,
Scott

Did I Lie ? Irony ?
Are you calling Situation that is going on forever between Jews in Israel and
their Neighbours "Super","Taking care of business" "Piece" or anything Nice,
I don't. This topic is "why do you believe", and I know that Life in Israel is
way less than Pleasent.
It would be sarcasm to say it is.

[Plaidback]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

That may be true of some people, but i think that most peoples' belief is a way of seeking the truth that science cannot provide.

I feel you, and completely understand where you" comming from ",
All I was trying to say is that, as of right Now, One and only Reality in wich
you and me Live together, alow you to rely upon wisdom of Buddha and live and breath that wisdom, which is great, and make this world beautiful.
Me, in the other hand, I feel only what is Real, what exist, whatever is my
Experience. My experience tells me that Prophecies from Torah, in fact
became Reality, which only Prooves that Reality is ahead of Us too.
And if Physical Resurection or Reincarnation become part of that Reality,
I will Die, right now, I am alive, just like you, and that is the Truth.
And there is Only one truth, always was, and always will be.


much Time !

[Plaidback]

Originally Posted by smkolins

I don't believe humans have any access to raw, unvarnished reality. We interprit through our sense what they are allowed to share and our interpritation is highly dependent on our social situation and norms.

I agree, you are right, and I don't want to " split hair " here.
Because we, as Species are limited with Time, we Live and Die,
Reality does Not. Now that's on Individual Level, but as Species (created upon God's Image, if you will ), we Indeed Survived and Progressed.
According to a Prophecy, some of Us will indeed cross over into Eternity, in
Flesh.
In order to Paint that, Raw, unvarnished Reality Picture, it is on you smkolins, to
let your Imagination see Human Life ( or in that case eternal existance, just because life is term for something that have an End ) without Time dimension.
where Everything Last forever, including Orgasm

Social situation and norms, are part of Reality, in wich Life is Life, very thing
that Makes us All " Like One under the Sun "

[smkolins]

Originally Posted by Plaidback

In order to Paint that, Raw, unvarnished Reality Picture, it is on you smkolins, to let your Imagination see Human Life

As much as we cannot understand or percieve true reality unvarnished, in the same breath, we cannot escape it.

I do not need to imagine it. I'm in it, deaf dumb and blind.

But I wish to make a difference in the few dimensions I have access to, so that as part of the whole, no change is percieved. If I did not do my part the whole would still be unchanged, but where I would fit in would leave me ashamed.

[kabir]

Why not?

jack
www.jackmctamney.com

[kabir]

Originally Posted by Plaidback

All I can tell You, is
that Everything can be described with words, everything.

If you don't mind then, could you describe what love feels like, or what it's like to be born blind and see absolutely nothing, not even blackness, or why do you like the food that you eat and why others may not?

Originally Posted by Plaidback

There is only one truth, and the only Man, whose every single word He've
said, was the truth, was Jesus from Nazareth.

So Truth didn't exist before Yeshua (much later nicknamed, "Jesus") was born?

"I came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it."

-Yeshua (Jesus)


jack
www.jackmctamney.com