Why do you believe in YOUR religion

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

In short, you can't walk in my shoes, nor I in yours, because the experience would kill us both.

You can't tell me how to be a man, because you don't know how to be a man, from my perspective, nor do I know how to be a man from yours.

That is the base fact.

Religion, however, gives us both some sort of equal footing to work with, hence build a neighbor, and then a neighborhood, and then a street, and then a village...and through it all we keep meeting on a regular basis, to affirm our beliefs, and to test our mettle on each other to make certain we are ALL complying in a basic standard that the "society" can function on.

Morally, legally, civilly.

This is good for a healthy barnyard but is that all human "being" is capable of? Plato's cave analogy asserts that we are asleep to reality and fixated on shadows. If this is true, what is the value of our imagination regardless of what form it takes in comparison to human conscious potential rather than societal potential?

"A man found an eagle's egg and put it in a nest of a barnyard hen. The eaglet hatched with the brood of chicks and grew up with them. All his life the eagle did what the barnyard chicks did, thinking he was a barnyard chicken. He scratched the earth for worms and insects. He clucked and cackled. And he would thrash his wings and fly a few feet into the air.

Years passed and the eagle grew very old. One day he saw a magnificent bird above him in the cloudless sky. It glided in graceful majesty among the powerful wind currents, with scarcely a beat on his strong golden wings. The old eagle looked up in awe. "Who's that?" he asked. "That's the eagle, the king of the birds," said his neighbor. "He belongs to the sky. We belong to the earth - we're chickens." So the eagle lived and died a chicken, for that's what he thought he was."

Anthony de Mello
(1931-1987) Jesuit Priest

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Don't play chess then, because a stale mate or a default is a lose lose. With the enemy still viable, for the next game...but then, you knew that.

I view chess as a game that could be played for a win-win regardless of outcome. Should I presume that you knew that?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

I view chess as a game that could be played for a win-win regardless of outcome. Should I presume that you knew that?

You don't know the essence of the game...

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

I view chess as a game that could be played for a win-win regardless of outcome. Should I presume that you knew that?

There is altuism and there is human nature.

Why must I lose to this idiot? - Aron Nimzovich

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Yes. Freedom from religion is deliciously honest. More broadly, freedom from the compulsion to defend forms and systems as if they were Truth is priceless, and ever so dangerous.

Chris

Indeed and free from the shackles of the traditions of men. Free to go as deep as one chooses into God without the limitations of finite minds creating dead ends & saying you are not allowed. Free to worship God instead of a religion.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Freedom from religion is way more awesome & beautiful than any freedom of religion will ever know.

The truth sets us free
And so Jesus went on to say to the Jews that had believed him: "If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples, and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free.

John 8;31-32

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

I can't teach you. I have enough trouble with it myself.

The difference between a pianist and a piano player and a pianist is that the Pianist is master of his instrument while the piano player is very limited in his abilities.

A MAN is master of himself while men are reactive creatures. A man must be able "to be" master of himself before becoming a MAN. But we don't know what this means since we are so caught up with being men.

The first thing to experience is that we are not masters of ourselves and rather creatures of conditioned reaction so if we are honest, we admit that we are idiots in comparison to our conscious potential. Before becoming a MAN you must first experience and verify that you are an idiot.

LOL.... Yeah this is where I sign off this one

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Is it? Or is it to be unshackled from the morals that such religious adherences force upon one?

Anarchist's Guide to God? That would be an interesting book to read indeed...no base, no plot line, no conclusion, in fact, no substance.

Chris, God is an absolute, freedom from God's ways is suicide...eventually.

If God is all pervasive, then It's natural religion is everywhere apparent and needs no reinforcement.

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Indeed and free from the shackles of the traditions of men. Free to go as deep as one chooses into God without the limitations of finite minds creating dead ends & saying you are not allowed. Free to worship God instead of a religion.

Or, free to use religion as a means without making an idol of it. Or, free to enjoy spirituality without having to participate in the factionalizing that makes religion a vehicle for establishing who is "us" versus "them."

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

What is "worship?" What does it mean to worship?

Chris

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Indeed and free from the shackles of the traditions of men. Free to go as deep as one chooses into God without the limitations of finite minds creating dead ends & saying you are not allowed. Free to worship God instead of a religion.

I'd say there is some exploring not worth the trip: drugs, murder, rape, theft... but if you still insist on that absolute freedom to explore unimpeded then I guess you would gain that knowledge.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

There is altuism and there is human nature.

As you have noted a person can hold different values which alters the viewpoint of the game. Like the motive, the thoughts, the reasoning, or the dependence. Gambling or alcohol comes to mind... the motive has a lot to do with it. They become a trap for some and yet not for others. In that moment Aron Nimzovich sounds like he had a pride over his chess record or his ability to the exclusion of his opponent.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

I'd say there is some exploring not worth the trip: drugs, murder, rape, theft... but if you still insist on that absolute freedom to explore unimpeded then I guess you would gain that knowledge.

What does that have to do with being free from institutionalized religion?

There are drugs, murder, rape, theft, liars & cheating on your spouse that runs rampid in every religious institution. I can be free from religion without exploring all of that.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

What is "worship?" What does it mean to worship?

Chris

for me it starts with repentence, forgiveness & those types of things that are true from within myself going outward to others and into what could be called supreme.

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Or, free to use religion as a means without making an idol of it. Or, free to enjoy spirituality without having to participate in the factionalizing that makes religion a vehicle for establishing who is "us" versus "them."

Chris

Nice.

Not enslaved by the fear of humans who feel they have no error in so much that if you look over there or join a different religion- you will be punished, outcast from this one and put to death.

Free from legalism.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

What is "worship?" What does it mean to worship?

Chris

For me, it is gratitude, and a turning toward- an embrace. Worship starts with thankfulness, then wonder, love, and beauty- losing myself...