Why do you believe in YOUR religion

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

For me, it is gratitude, and a turning toward- an embrace. Worship starts with thankfulness, then wonder, love, and beauty- losing myself...

I have "gratitude, embrace, thankfulness, wonder, love and beauty - losing myself" in my own philosophical meander through life. But I have never felt inclined to worship it. It is natural to ritualise what makes you happy. I suppose the fundamental reason for this,as I see it in me at least, is the ambivalence of our physical universe. It does not distinguish between a destructive or creative event. There is only change. I find this comforting in itself. I am happy to witness a renewal that persists........but I see no point in worshipping that.

tao

[mee]

WORSHIP The rendering of reverent honor or homage.


Jehovah God accepts only the worship of those who comport themselves in harmony with his will. (Mt 15:9; Mr 7:7)

[Nick_A]

Why worship? What do we gain and why would a divine being need it?

The problem is us and the solution begins with impartial efforts to "know thyself" rather than blind worship.

[Alex P]

I prefer.... Give thanks than give worship

[Nick the Pilot]

Nick,

It seems that some people need to worship a deity. Alas, you and I do not seem to fall into that cateogy. Those who wish to worship a deity, let them. Be glad they allow us to not worship a deity.

It all works out in the end.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Nick,

It seems that some people need to worship a deity. Alas, you and I do not seem to fall into that cateogy. Those who wish to worship a deity, let them. Be glad they allow us to not worship a deity.

It all works out in the end.

I agree. I don't attack others. The trouble is we know how it all works out in the end and this raises the question if this is all there is? Shakespeare described it well:

Shakespeare - All the world's a stage

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

Why worship? What do we gain and why would a divine being need it?

The problem is us and the solution begins with impartial efforts to "know thyself" rather than blind worship.

You are mistaking "worship" (acknowledgement and appreciation of God) with religion (dutifully carrying out rituals and behaviors). Therein lies your error.

Second, we have had millenia to "fix" ourselves, and so far, we've simply become more effecient at the negative potential we have as opposed to the positive potential.

To "know thyself" is to recognize our limits, and potential, and I dare say, immaturaty as a sentient species...something man does not ever like doing individually, let alone as a collective.

Hence the need for "faith" in one greater than ourselves, and the need for "religion" as a discipline towards that "faith".

In that respect alone, man is quite logical in his endeavors, to prevent his own destruction. But that is the only saving grace he has...

v/r

Q

[Nick_A]

Q

You are mistaking "worship" (acknowledgement and appreciation of God) with religion (dutifully carrying out rituals and behaviors). Therein lies your error.

While I would accept your definition, it is not so common. Normally acknowledgement and practice are not separate. Consider the dictionary definition:

worship - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

2: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence

3: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual

Second, we have had millenia to "fix" ourselves, and so far, we've simply become more effecient at the negative potential we have as opposed to the positive potential.

True and it raises the question as to why it is so. Why don't we learn by experience? The answer is the human condition but it is too insulting to consider.

To "know thyself" is to recognize our limits, and potential, and I dare say, immaturaty as a sentient species...something man does not ever like doing individually, let alone as a collective.

To "know thyself" is not introspection or analysis. It means simply to know thyself. It means to consciously and impartially experience oneself without concern for judgment.

Hence the need for "faith" in one greater than ourselves, and the need for "religion" as a discipline towards that "faith".

The question of faith is quite deep. Faith IN this or that is secular. It is an outward expression The Faith OF Christ is something different. It is an inner potential attribute of our being. It is something we have the potential for.

In that respect alone, man is quite logical in his endeavors, to prevent his own destruction. But that is the only saving grace he has...


It may be logical but if built on false premises it is invalid. The saving grace is awakening to the reality of the human condition and how to bring a chaotic state of inner plurality into an organized inner unity.

"May the outward and inward man be at one." Socrates

As we are, we are incapable of such unity so we go the way described above by Shakespeare. However, the balanced inner Man that puts life into a conscious perspective and receives help from above may be capable of more and serving a conscious purpose more appropriate for Man.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

Q

You are mistaking "worship" (acknowledgement and appreciation of God) with religion (dutifully carrying out rituals and behaviors). Therein lies your error.

While I would accept your definition, it is not so common. Normally acknowledgement and practice are not separate. Consider the dictionary definition:

worship - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary



Second, we have had millenia to "fix" ourselves, and so far, we've simply become more effecient at the negative potential we have as opposed to the positive potential.

True and it raises the question as to why it is so. Why don't we learn by experience? The answer is the human condition but it is too insulting to consider.

To "know thyself" is to recognize our limits, and potential, and I dare say, immaturaty as a sentient species...something man does not ever like doing individually, let alone as a collective.

To "know thyself" is not introspection or analysis. It means simply to know thyself. It means to consciously and impartially experience oneself without concern for judgment.

Hence the need for "faith" in one greater than ourselves, and the need for "religion" as a discipline towards that "faith".

The question of faith is quite deep. Faith IN this or that is secular. It is an outward expression The Faith OF Christ is something different. It is an inner potential attribute of our being. It is something we have the potential for.

In that respect alone, man is quite logical in his endeavors, to prevent his own destruction. But that is the only saving grace he has...


It may be logical but if built on false premises it is invalid. The saving grace is awakening to the reality of the human condition and how to bring a chaotic state of inner plurality into an organized inner unity.



As we are, we are incapable of such unity so we go the way described above by Shakespeare. However, the balanced inner Man that puts life into a conscious perspective and receives help from above may be capable of more and serving a conscious purpose more appropriate for Man.

Argue with someone else, not me...I know what I know, and am sorry you don't know the same thing. But please, continue with your debate and observations...

That is why you are here. I on the other hand, love watching you grow...

It's all good Nick.

v/r

Joshua

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Argue with someone else, not me...I know what I know, and am sorry you don't know the same thing. But please, continue with your debate and observations...

That is why you are here. I on the other hand, love watching you grow...

It's all good Nick.

v/r

Joshua

You know what you know and sorry that I don't know the same. You must be a graduate of the King George school of right and wrong that now sees us as misguided rather than traitors. Well that's progress..

I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor. King George III

The only thing growing is my midsection from eating cookies while I write. I don't know what is so good about that.

Well as long as the world still has good scotch and cute blondes, all is not lost.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

You know what you know and sorry that I don't know the same. You must be a graduate of the King George school of right and wrong that now sees us as misguided rather than traitors. Well that's progress..



The only thing growing is my midsection from eating cookies while I write. I don't know what is so good about that.

Well as long as the world still has good scotch and cute blondes, all is not lost.

Actually Sir, I am the graduate of life and death...and you have no idea who you think you are talking DOWN to...

Be that as it may...enjoy your time here.

v/r

Joshua

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Actually Sir, I am the graduate of life and death...and you have no idea who you think you are talking DOWN to...

Be that as it may...enjoy your time here.

v/r

Joshua

Why all this concern about talking down and up? You posted a reply and I posted in the spirit of the reply. What's wrong with being honest? In older times it used to be respected as humor. But in those days we didn't defend the human condition so strongly and were willing to admit our failings.

Mark Twain would no longer sell in these times of political correctness and we are all the worse for it IMO.

Only fools fight in a burning house.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I have "gratitude, embrace, thankfulness, wonder, love and beauty - losing myself" in my own philosophical meander through life. But I have never felt inclined to worship it. It is natural to ritualise what makes you happy. I suppose the fundamental reason for this,as I see it in me at least, is the ambivalence of our physical universe. It does not distinguish between a destructive or creative event. There is only change. I find this comforting in itself. I am happy to witness a renewal that persists........but I see no point in worshipping that.

tao

:: shrugs ::

To each their own.

I will add that worship is not necessarily ritual. For me, worship and ritual are overlapping behaviors but there can be ritual without worship and worship without ritual. I'm not sure that ritualizing being a natural human behavior is directly related to worship being a natural human behavior. And both seem to be varied tendencies in populations-- hence, you feel no need to worship and I just naturally do it. It's not about need, it's just about how I experience my own life.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

In that respect alone, man is quite logical in his endeavors, to prevent his own destruction. But that is the only saving grace he has...

v/r

Q

I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.
JEREMIAH 10;23

Mankind thinks it can go alone and work things out, but he wasnt created to rule himself independent of God , so thats why it only has led to failure , he wasnt created to do it himself . not for much longer though, DANIEL 2;'44

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

:: shrugs ::

To each their own.

I will add that worship is not necessarily ritual. For me, worship and ritual are overlapping behaviors but there can be ritual without worship and worship without ritual. I'm not sure that ritualizing being a natural human behavior is directly related to worship being a natural human behavior. And both seem to be varied tendencies in populations-- hence, you feel no need to worship and I just naturally do it. It's not about need, it's just about how I experience my own life.

But worship is not more than that? Is it not also a declaration of bias to one way of thinking? I see it as a superfluous decoration or fetter, dependent on the individual and their expression of it. As it is not required to appreciate nor study anything it is an add on. An add on religious leaderships have exploited to its full potential as a brainwashing device. Worship is not a singular act. It is a ritualised behaviour that involves a lot of dumb repetition that serves no purpose other than affirmation of the extant paradigm. So in that sense it can be viewed as an enemy of reason?

tao