Why evil if God is so great? - Page 2

Awaiting_the_fifth · 03-31-2005, 11:04 AM

I believe in Karma, but I think this belief equates nicely to this monotheistic discussion.

I believe that if I am evil in this life, evil will be inflicted on me in another life. Then I have a choice. I can react to the evil with more evil in which case I will only increase my suffering in subsequent lives, or I can bear up to the evil, tolerate it and take pity on the ones who inflict the evil on me because they will likely spend the next life in hell.

If I were a christian I would be inclined to continue this idea to the conclusion that Evil exists to test how a person reacts to it. I would like to ask the Christians here, if Evil is inflicted on you, do you hate those who inflict it on you or do you pity them because their Evil acts mean that they will never meet God in paradise.

Knowledge · 04-06-2005, 06:06 AM

The reason evil exists is because God is not a dictator. He did not force us to love him, nor did he force his love on us. Instead however, God showed us he loves us, and gave us the free will to Choose to love him back. In the begining, our parants, Adam and Eve, disobeyed God's Commandment (Law). And, just like the natural way of things, there are consequences that come with breaking a law. When Adam and Eve sined, perfection was broken, and the curse of sin effected everything, including the first people - Adam and Eve. Now, just like DNA, which is passed down from one person to the next, sin is also passed down. EVERYONE born is born in sin, and has the sin DNA in them which will cause them to sin. For us, sin is natural! This is why we MUST be born again.

Later,

Knowledge

human1111 · 04-07-2005, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

My philosophy is split. I see the power of God, his greatness, kindness, unity and love. I can see all this, I understand it.

But if God is so great why is there pain Evil and suffering? I ask why I'm so blessed to not be one of the many people who do not have anything to eat.

To combat all this thinking I then go back to the Old Testament, where it says that God created us in the image of himself and that we ate the fruits of wisdom. In other words we are powerful beings with freewill and make are own choices.

But then if life of freewill came from such a God of goodness, greatness and kindness then why and how did we go on to have the ability to create evil, where did evil come from? God himself?

So then some would argue that the devil is in fact not Gods creation and if thats the case then we do live in a dualistic atmosphere?

Or does this philosophy of a one great God go beyond comprehension?

As a Christian, I feel that when I question such things, I feel like I'm drifting towards bad myself and weak.

Maybe there isn't evil? If G-d exists, than it is all powerful and absolute law of nature. Being all powerful, absolute, perfect it also must be just and altruistic. Evil is our non understanding of laws of nature, and like swimming upstream it gives us difficulties. Deuteronomy 4:35 - there is none else but Him. Meaning that everything flows with the universal law called "G-d" and nothing can go against it. All the imperfection and "evil" is part of a cosmic process that we, being egoists do not understand. G-d cannot pamper us, because that would do us injustice and rob us, and that could go against G-d's altruism. Also remember that fruit may taste bitter before it ripens and medicine may be painful until it saves...

Paladin · 04-07-2005, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by human1111

Maybe there isn't evil? If G-d exists, than it is all powerful and absolute law of nature. Being all powerful, absolute, perfect it also must be just and altruistic. Evil is our non understanding of laws of nature, and like swimming upstream it gives us difficulties. Deuteronomy 4:35 - there is none else but Him. Meaning that everything flows with the universal law called "G-d" and nothing can go against it. All the imperfection and "evil" is part of a cosmic process that we, being egoists do not understand. G-d cannot pamper us, because that would do us injustice and rob us, and that could go against G-d's altruism. Also remember that fruit may taste bitter before it ripens and medicine may be painful until it saves...

Exactly! If God is all powerful, all knowledge, all presence, what is left over? Obviously nothing. Therefore only one power can exist, not two. there can never be God and something else, there can only be God. It is our ignorance of this idea that is at the root of suffering. If we only knew of our oneness if it were experiential how could we inflict suffering on another?

Apologetic Warrior · 04-23-2005, 12:38 AM

I think that's an awful small box you've put God into, and it's illogical God being all powerful does not mean that there are no other powers, just no powers that offer any real competition, I'd also disagree with the concept that God is altruistic. God(at least the God of the bible) is a jealous god, he is vengeful and wrathful looking through the Old Testament He says as much, however God is certainly not evil. The chief end of man is to Glorify God, God however has three options, He can seek to glorify something greater than Himself, which is impossible, He can seek to glorify something lower than Himself, which is silly, Or He can seek to glorify Himself. It seems selfish and I suppose it is, but it's legitimate, man should never seek after his own interests, he's not worthy, God is the only thing that's worth seeking even for Himself. God is self seeking by necessity. God's greatest glory lies in us seeking after him when the odds are so heavily stacked against us, God allows evil to thrive so that by us turning to Him against all odds His true glory may be revealed. A healed heart is far more glorious than a perfect one, a victory snatched from the jaws of defeat more precious than a sure one. Just an idea.

janitor · 04-23-2005, 12:57 PM

Hi everyone....

A little over a year ago I had to do a lot of thinking about this...I will give you what I came up with.

We have some close friends who lost a 26 day old baby. At the time I was teaching a Sunday school class of senior high students, and because I was the teacher, I basically got to depress them for about 3 weeks. The thought process that that I went through was pretty lengthy, so I will try and start where your question comes in.

With the fall of Adam and Eve, a rift occured with God. Suddenly we had knowledge of good and evil....but it wasnt God's knowledge, it was based upon ourselves and not God. (this is actually a thought that I picked up from Bonhoeffer). This gave satan, evil, wickedness (pick what ever term works best here) a hold on humans because of the separation from God. This is where I view that freewill comes into play.

God and satan had already split, with satan being cast out of heaven. With the fall of man satan saw his chance to prove to God that he was God's equal by rulling the earth. Satans ultimate goal is to get everyone on earth to deny God. When I think about it, satan is very crafty, he as done a great job of getting us to blame God when bad things happen, even though he is the cause. This world and life may be one big test for God to prove to satan that he is not God's equal. One one had, we as ego driven people, who do not have the mind of God, might find this as some sort of cruel game. But what we have from God is forgiveness and the promise of paradise, for having to have endured the evil on this earth. Maybe the simple answer is just so we will appreciate heaven more when we get there....

I will try and expand more at some point....but the boy just got fussy, so I guess its breakfast time.

the janitor

Conscience · 04-23-2005, 05:19 PM

God is so Powerful, and also so Loving. He made certain laws, and like any other law, there are consequences that will occure once a law is broken. Man sined (broke a law), and evil, the opposite of good, came as a result. But, God is so amazing, he made a plan to fix what he knew would occure. Be thankful that there is evil. Why? Because God foreknew before making us (his beloved children) that we would inharate sin and death. But, because he loved us SO much, he created us anyway, and made a full proof plan to fix everything in the end.

Be thankful to God that he gave you life, and a free chance at eternal living in the most incridble bliss anyone can imagine!

Paladin · 04-23-2005, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apologetic Warrior

I think that's an awful small box you've put God into, and it's illogical God being all powerful does not mean that there are no other powers, just no powers that offer any real competition, I'd also disagree with the concept that God is altruistic. God(at least the God of the bible) is a jealous god, he is vengeful and wrathful looking through the Old Testament He says as much, however God is certainly not evil. The chief end of man is to Glorify God, God however has three options, He can seek to glorify something greater than Himself, which is impossible, He can seek to glorify something lower than Himself, which is silly, Or He can seek to glorify Himself. It seems selfish and I suppose it is, but it's legitimate, man should never seek after his own interests, he's not worthy, God is the only thing that's worth seeking even for Himself. God is self seeking by necessity. God's greatest glory lies in us seeking after him when the odds are so heavily stacked against us, God allows evil to thrive so that by us turning to Him against all odds His true glory may be revealed. A healed heart is far more glorious than a perfect one, a victory snatched from the jaws of defeat more precious than a sure one. Just an idea.

Whew, where to begin? So according to your logic, God is not all powerful, all knowing, and all present. Ok, but in addition you say God is anthropomorhized, capricious and bears some of the worst negative behavior we see in man. Do I have that right? Or do I misunderstand your point?

Quahom1 · 04-23-2005, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin

Whew, where to begin? So according to your logic, God is not all powerful, all knowing, and all present. Ok, but in addition you say God is anthropomorhized, capricious and bears some of the worst negative behavior we see in man. Do I have that right? Or do I misunderstand your point?

With $50.00 words like that, I missed your point...

ez is ze way.

v/r

Q

Geist · 04-23-2005, 10:03 PM

I suppose if you look at it from a christian point of veiw God gave Adam and Eve free will to choose what to do and not what to do. It is also said that God refuses to intevien in human affairs ever again after the flood; Noah. So you could bring "Evil" down to choice and free will if you were Christian.

Paladin · 04-23-2005, 10:18 PM

sorry Q, but it was the only word I could think of that accurately expressed my point. Look to your own screen name for its meaning

What I meant was, that God is much bigger and higher than the capacity and nature (ie Qua), of mankind (hom)
I cannot believe for a moment that God is actually Jealous, selfish, wrathful or any other small, mean, petty things that man in his ignorance is capable of dredging up.
Further, I think that we in our true nature are in fact wonderful, beautiful creations of the Divine, sharing in that trancendental nature, and once we realize both our oneness with God, with each other, and all of creation, our conciousness will be such as to preclude any kind of negative thought or action.

Oh, and not to imply that your screen name is in any way negative, but that to anthropomorphize God is to bring Him down to our limited way of thinking and being.

Am I being clear here or just digging myself into trouble deeper?

Quahom1 · 04-24-2005, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin

sorry Q, but it was the only word I could think of that accurately expressed my point. Look to your own screen name for its meaning

What I meant was, that God is much bigger and higher than the capacity and nature (ie Qua), of mankind (hom)
I cannot believe for a moment that God is actually Jealous, selfish, wrathful or any other small, mean, petty things that man in his ignorance is capable of dredging up.
Further, I think that we in our true nature are in fact wonderful, beautiful creations of the Divine, sharing in that trancendental nature, and once we realize both our oneness with God, with each other, and all of creation, our conciousness will be such as to preclude any kind of negative thought or action.

Oh, and not to imply that your screen name is in any way negative, but that to anthropomorphize God is to bring Him down to our limited way of thinking and being.

Am I being clear here or just digging myself into trouble deeper?

Nope, I appreciate in full what you just posted. But there is a very tiny problem...my screen name.

See, it has nothing to do with any language on earth, though it does identify Earthly humans. It means male human before the right of ascension (little human boy who thinks he's a warrior), in Klinzhai (or Klingon). It is pronounced Qha' Hchom (very gutteral sound). But that is for another time...

v/r

Q

Paladin · 04-24-2005, 05:04 AM

Sheesh, you would have thought I knew that... being Betazoid and all...

Faithfulservant · 04-24-2005, 07:47 AM

Q's a trekkie I love it

hpet · 04-24-2005, 11:21 AM

God is so great that he loves mankind so much to give the freedom of choice

Deuteronomy 30

19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live,

First we have to agree there exists pure evil in this world. If one does not agree no one can help that person see.

So why do some some suffer while others don't?

Romans 12
4 For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.

So basically when the other person rejoices, we are supposed to rejoice with that person and the same for suffering. It is because we do not realise all are in one body we have differences.

All points to this:

* Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your strength....
You need the spirit of the Lord to show love to your neighbour, even to the point of giving your life itself! The nature of human spirit cannot do that.

* Love your neighbour as yourself.

Then evil will be gone!

Thanks.