Why evil if God is so great?

Postmaster · 03-25-2005, 01:31 AM

My philosophy is split. I see the power of God, his greatness, kindness, unity and love. I can see all this, I understand it.

But if God is so great why is there pain Evil and suffering? I ask why I'm so blessed to not be one of the many people who do not have anything to eat.

To combat all this thinking I then go back to the Old Testament, where it says that God created us in the image of himself and that we ate the fruits of wisdom. In other words we are powerful beings with freewill and make are own choices.

But then if life of freewill came from such a God of goodness, greatness and kindness then why and how did we go on to have the ability to create evil, where did evil come from? God himself?

So then some would argue that the devil is in fact not Gods creation and if thats the case then we do live in a dualistic atmosphere?

Or does this philosophy of a one great God go beyond comprehension?

As a Christian, I feel that when I question such things, I feel like I'm drifting towards bad myself and weak.

One way to look at it is that each and every person is a unique and an everlasting person and in order to keep your identity of selfness you have been granted freewill where you can create and others can create evil and good upon so that you can accomplish your identity? Otherwise when we die we'd be nothing but part of God, however when humans die they will be next to God like an angel rather then part of him?

didymus · 03-25-2005, 01:48 AM

PM, it's a mystery to me.

Postmaster · 03-25-2005, 01:52 AM

Drives me nuts lol..

But that's my brain not my heart. I practise my life as if there is a God cause there is

Bandit · 03-25-2005, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Drives me nuts lol..

But that's my brain not my heart. I practise my life as if there is a God cause there is

i think he wanted it this way. he could of made us all with no free will and kept us locked up with chains and whips. but instead he made it so we can be either good or evil. this is how he knows who the ones are that really love Him and want to be with Him in eternity.

we want love and so does He

or he could have just made us like clones or robots and that would be no fun.

jimmy_chai · 03-25-2005, 04:48 AM

Hi happy esther,
I used to study at a college in Thailand, an international college. There was a theology dept, and the dean was from Finland.

His son came from Finland to study as well, but he is unlike the father.

He is also my friend. Friendly, and wonderful young man. But he carries tattoo on his arm. He wanted to stay away from the parents, he was given a cottage just next to the college. He hanged out with students with poor characters, and they have fun. He wanted a motor-bike, his father pays and let him have a new one. Meanwhile, he came in and out the house of his parents as he likes.

I knew the family. Students like the dean, and he shew compassion and love for his son, while unrestrictedly allowing his son to do what he liked. The question is, should we relate the son and the dean, of theology dept?

Then I wandered further. Should I relate the publican, the tax collectors, the sinners and Jesus for Jesus was holy but the others were not? Why evil but Jesus was so kind? Could we blame Jesus for judas's betrayal?

There comes a state, when we perceive evil as a deed of wrong thinking, instead of interconnectedness of the doers and the Creator. If we are clear so far, then we know God should not be mocked, people just reap what they sow, is it true? Think about it^_+

Jimmy

Faithfulservant · 03-25-2005, 07:53 AM

Ok.. I want to answer this from a Christian perspective. What is sin? Sin is disobedience to God.. Sin is evil and causes pain and suffering either to ourself or to others. We cannot help but sin.. Its in every one of us..

The amazing thing about the evil painful suffering is that God still manages to make good happen from it. For example.. Christ on the cross.. What a horrible thing that was!! But we have to look at the amazing good that came from it. The holocaust was a horrible thing as well but what happened? The world sympathized with the Jewish nation and made it possible for them to get their land back. We all have a tendancy to view things in one dimension but God is multi dimensional.. I have had horrible things happen to me and years later realized the great good that came from experiencing them, at the time I was angry or hurt wondering why God would allow these things to happen to me. Now as I mature spiritually I find it easier to accept the bad knowing that God would make good come from it.

Postmaster · 03-25-2005, 12:31 PM

Quote:

The amazing thing about the evil painful suffering is that God still manages to make good happen from it. For example.. Christ on the cross.. What a horrible thing that was!! But we have to look at the amazing good that came from it. The holocaust was a horrible thing as well but what happened? The world sympathized with the Jewish nation and made it possible for them to get their land back. We all have a tendancy to view things in one dimension but God is multi dimensional.. I have had horrible things happen to me and years later realized the great good that came from experiencing them, at the time I was angry or hurt wondering why God would allow these things to happen to me. Now as I mature spiritually I find it easier to accept the bad knowing that God would make good come from it.

That I totally agree with

With out the second world wars we wouldn't have invented the computer or microwave. So if God created evil, then Good must still come from it and that evil is human creation. I was actually say this on an other forum a few days ago lol... Very good thinking faithfulservant.

I, Brian · 03-25-2005, 04:07 PM

Exactly! A lot of the separation of "good" and "evil" seems so artificial.

brucegdc · 03-25-2005, 04:23 PM

Indeed. Not to mention what's evil to you may not be to me, or vice versa. I disagree, however, with you, Postmaster, in the evil = human good = God dichotomy that you're promulgating. I think that we cannot know which of actions come from God directly or from the goodness in people. Miracles,by definition, occur without human intervention, so we can figure those out (unless there's a third party out there), but the rest of it we can't figure out from this viewpoint.

My view is that things happen. Coincidences exist, and so do long range plans from outside my knowledge. What is important to me is to behave in a manner that is consistent with my beliefs, and avoid harm to myself or others. The T-shirt that lists "**** happens" by various beliefs seems appropriate here... it does sum up the "why is this happening" question.

dauer · 03-25-2005, 04:29 PM

I would take it one step further than faithful servant. If God is good, then evil is inherently good. It is not just that good comes from evil because this would not render evil good. It would still leave us with the question, "Why do we need evil? Why can't we just have the good and forget about the evil? Why are there so many starving children with AIDs in Africa?"

So I tend to think that if God is benevolent then evil itself must be inherently good, and not only what might eventually come from it. This is not to say that acting evil is good because there is a difference between the behavior of man and the design of God. If a man is acting evil, I would say that this man is still acting as God wishes in that moment, but that it is also obligated upon me and the rest of humanity to seek out a utopian goodness, whether such a reality is feasible or not. And this is true for the man acting evil as well.

To put it differently I will speak of perspectives. There is the perspective of man. Man sees the world and says "good!" or "evil!" Because man's view is entirely subjective as a part of the world.

God's perspective allows Him to see all and say, "It is very good!" But for us, living within this world, we each will come to see some things as good and some things as evil based on how they effect us, how they effect our community, how they effect the creatures of the world or the world itself.

The other issue is that having our own individual perspectives in which we each subjectively see good and evil differently and we each recognize the existence of evil, in most cases agreeing on the basics, this is also good. It is good that we disagree. It is good that there is war. It is good that some people die in pain and suffering. It is good that there was the Holocaust. But this is rarely if ever our perspective as creatures of the world who love peace and seek righteousness. Our struggling is good as well. It could be argued that goodness is doubly good while evil is only singularly good because good is called good in name and by the general application of goodness to all of creation while evil is only good because of the general application. This would show that the greatest good, the greatest goodness, the greatest presence of good, is in acts of goodness rather than anywhere else. But evil is still good.

And this only applies if God is a benevolent Creator.

Dauer

ISFP · 03-28-2005, 04:03 PM

hey Postmaster-

my only answer would be, devote yourself to being a force for positive change in the world. be caring, compassionate, thoughtful, and mindful. let your actions and words reflect this. reach out to others when you have the chance, and let others do the same for you. there is pain and fear and senseless hardships in the world, no one would deny that. if this troubles you, do what you can to alieve some of that pain as you see it around you. i don't know what God thinks of all this, but i know that we as people can work and make things happen. we can love, we can get angry and demand change. i don't try to fathom why bad things happen. things like neglect, sadness, killing, poverty, abuse, hunger. often things just are. but that doesn't mean they have to stay that way. it matters less how things got the way they are, then it does how things can change for the better and how we might initiate that change.

it is written in the Bible that at the end of days, Christ will gather humanity before him and bless those who gave him food when he was hungry, clothed him when he was naked, and visited him when he was troubled. they will ask when they did these things for him, and he will answer "what you do unto the least of your brethen, you do unto me". his answer is not in contemplating the how and why of suffering, but in showing love and concern to help ease that suffering in real life.

lunamoth · 03-28-2005, 04:38 PM

Hi IFSP, nice post. I'm not sure if anyone has said this above but evil is the absence of good. Suffering is part of this existence, at least for the time being, and I admit I do not understand why. But, when I think of evil acts committed by people I think this is what life is like without God or without hope. When I see hurtful acts committed by people I think how I have I turned away from this person in need? By distinguishing between evil and hurtful I'm just trying to say that some people are motivated by greed, power, avarice while others hurt their neighbors because they themselves have been hurt and neglected. I do not discredit the role of free will and personal responsibility for either deed, and perhaps in the end it is just a matter of degree.

lunamoth

Virtual_Cliff · 03-28-2005, 10:56 PM

Hey IFSP and lunamoth I love you

We should remember that much of what others blame on God is in fact our own doing. We could in fact have a near-perfect world with no starvation, much less disease and little crime. People's collective selfishness, arrogance and short-sightedness have presented us with what we have now. But that is our challenge - to make it better. Not on our own but working as, in Christian terms, as the body of Christ, the effective power of God here in the mortal world.

It does matter that people don't think of God as some kind of uncaring monster that deliberately inflicts pain and suffering for no apparent reason. This is an often hard but beautiful world. When it gets hard, that is when I'm most aware of the love of God, comforting and guiding me. Many others have said the same.

IMHO even if God can salvage some good from evil, that doesn't make evil good. It is also possible for evil effects to follow from good beginnings. Recent years in Israel / Palestine show this only too well. Likewise I don't think it is a Christian perspective to believe that "all things turn out for the best". I think the Christian belief is that good comes from God and evil comes from denial of God.

Perhaps there is or will be a world filled with cotton-candy and barbie dolls, but I love the one we have here.

With love,
VC

Quahom1 · 03-29-2005, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virtual_Cliff

I think the Christian belief is that good comes from God and evil comes from denial of God.
VC

That pretty much sums it up VC. Cold is the absense of heat, darkness is the absense of light, and evil is the absense of God. Such a simple yet profound reality.

v/r

Q

Lorin · 03-30-2005, 03:15 AM

There are a number of problems with this issue. One is how we recognize evil in time. What immediately appears to be evil, may be in the longer run good. The same is true for the perception of good. What appears to be good, may in the longer run be evil. This may not be a theological issue, but a question of secular ethical philosophy.

Theologically., the early Neo-Platonist Christian writers define evil as the absence of good, and say the appearance of evil is an illusion. Gnostics will say evil exists because the Demiurge is not all powerful or completely good and the One who is, stands away from material creation. Ironically, it is monotheism that creates this semantic problem, polytheism has no problem because it can have agents of evil as Gods. Christians and Jews have always been ambiguous about the relation of Satan to God.

H