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Old 09-03-2009, 04:41 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

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Originally Posted by immortalitylost View Post
And hey, if a carnivore wants to eat me, I say bring it on!
chuckles!!
Reminds me of a bit early on in the book "The Life of Pi" where Pi's father, a zoo owner in Pondicherry takes his children to show what a tiger can do to a living goat. I would still say its as good a way to go as any...
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:47 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

ooo, that reminds me of the goat in Jurassic Park. I remember seeing that in theater when I was younger, and saying that it was the best day ever, lol. Indicative of the future I suppose.

That movie totally rocked!

Cricketz 4 ebery1!
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Old 10-08-2009, 08:48 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

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Originally Posted by islamis4u View Post
We can eat anything i must say it may be vegetarian or non-vegetarian we should not restrict other then pig and other things which are not allowed like carnivore animals.
what about eating humans, your comments seems like justifying cannibalism
if not pls let me know the reason.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:20 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

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Originally Posted by shankar View Post
what about eating humans, your comments seems like justifying cannibalism
if not pls let me know the reason.
well, obviously not carnivorous humans! and eating a vegetarian eating human would also be make you a carnivore of a 'possible' carnivore; would a goat or cow if absolutely starving eat a dead animal? [no, not processed/derivative meat products, we could be eating humans masquerading as other animal meat and be totally ignorant of it]. Pigs probably have been observed doing this hence the taboo?
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:07 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

We are not meant to eat meat or other animal products. Set your spiritual beliefs aside for a moment and look at the scientific research and the facts of human physiology. Eating meat and animal products is harmful to the human body.

Regardless of your belief system or faith, I think you can agree that this human exerience is a blessing, an opportunity, and therefore should you not treat your body as a temple? Should you not be humble, appreciative and respectful to the body which carries you through life?
Eating meat is none of the above, it is harmful and destructive to your being.
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:01 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

The canines protrude out from the other teeth, making them useful as weapons to puncture through living tissue. I have also been told that it is very difficult to get certain vitamins without eating meat and that this is based upon scientific research as well. Does this mean I go out biting people? No, I don't do that. People taste funny.
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:24 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

They certainly do...

*no comment* (<.<)
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Old 10-26-2009, 11:56 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

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Originally Posted by Dream View Post
The canines protrude out from the other teeth, making them useful as weapons to puncture through living tissue. I have also been told that it is very difficult to get certain vitamins without eating meat and that this is based upon scientific research as well. Does this mean I go out biting people? No, I don't do that. People taste funny.

Herbivore, Carnivore and Human Comparison:

Stomach Acidity
Herb and Human - pH 4-5
Carnivore - Less than 1
Humans are lacking Uricase, an enzyme which rids the body of Uric Acid. Carnivores do have the enzyme Uricase. Uric Acid is a by-product of protein metabolism. High levels of meat and animal products result in high levels of Uric Acid. This is fine for a carnivore, this is dangerous for humans

All Herbivore and Human Jaw move well side to side and front to back, no shear movement. All Carnivores lack this movement. This is because of the Jaw Joint location in herbivores and humans, it is above the molars, in carnivores it is on the same plane as the molar teeth. This makes our jaws perfect for grinding fibrous grains, greens, grasses etc...

Herbivores and Humans chew excesively and contain enzymes in their saliva which start to pre-digest carbohydrates in the mouth. Carnivores swallow food whole and do not possess enzymes in the mouth.

Herbivores and Humans have a small intestine which is 10-12 times longer than body length. Carnivores small intenstine is 3-6 times longer than their body. Humans and Herbivores colons are long and sacculated (think ribbed), carnivores are simple short and smooth.
Our digestive systems are not meant to handle meat.

Our lives, and guess what, herbivores livers, cannot detoxify vitamin A. Carnivores... CAN!

Humans suck water, herbivores suck water (our jaws permit), no carnivore sucks water, they lap it up.

Humans and Herbivores have flattened nail beds, Carnivores have sharp claws.



The list goes on and on and on. This is true for all carnivore and herbivore animals.
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Old 10-26-2009, 12:44 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

That comparison doesn't take omnivores into account.
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:13 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

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Originally Posted by dauer View Post
That comparison doesn't take omnivores into account.
They have the same characteristics as carnivores.
The most important being in the digestive system:

Ph less than 1
Length of small intenstine is 4-6X body length
Colon is simple short and smooth


The fact of the matter is, regardless of your opinion or religious/spiritual belief, consuming animal proteins/products is not healthy or beneficial to human beings. It just isn't, no ifs and or buts, and it was never meant to be. We are primates.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:22 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

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Originally Posted by Andre
[omnivores] have the same characteristics as carnivores... [consuming meat is] not healthy or beneficial to human beings...We are primates...
Slowwwww down. That's way too much kool aide for one gulp. I spent about three years as a vegan and did a good bit of reading into those types of assertions. Do most Westerners eat too much meat? Without a doubt. We eat too much meat. That doesn't mean we're not omnivores, that we shouldn't eat meat or that meat has not been beneficial to human beings. Omnivores do not have identical characteristics to carnivores and primates don't eat only vegetation. This article is a good place to start:

The Relevance of Comparative Anatomy and Physiology "Proofs"


You might also find this article informative: Paleolithic Diet vs. Vegetarianism
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Old 11-07-2009, 09:11 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

Can Flesh be considered the natural food of man, when both his eyes and his nose are so much against it, unless deceived by flavors of sices, salt and sugar. On the other hand, how delightful do we find the fragrance of fruits, the very sight which often makes the mouth water"
~Paramahansa Yogananda

The article you posted is an obvious rebuttle to the 80/10/10 diet, which is not what I am advocating. It disregards eating meat for survival. It addreses the evolutionary needs of our ancestors and the lack of other sources of vital minerals and enzymes. Fortunately we do not live in the Sahara, we are not experiencing an ice age. It is important to recognize the age and conditions in which we live.

20,000 cases of e-coli from meat happen each year. Salmonella can be found in 30-70% of chickens. In 80-90% of turkeys there is found a Camphlobacter infection, which causes intenstinal infections similar to salmonella. Flesh food has aprox fifteen times more pesticides and herbicides than vegetable food, due to the fact that they are at the top of the food chain. Fish contain large ammounts of Mercury and PCB, water contaminants from pesticide runnoff. PCB's are found in 100% of human sperm samples and are considered one of the main reasons that the average sperm count in USA is 50-70% what it was 30 years ago. How about the corelation between young children developing mature breasts, utteruses and vaginal bleeding and the hormone rich animal food they are eating (which are fed estrogen to increase their weight)?
Uric Acid- our bodies are only able to excrete eight grains per day, whereas one lbs of meat leaves a residue of eighteen grains of uric acid. Uric acid is highly toxic in excess.
One has to ask why cancer and degenerative disease rates are so high! Ontop of all the contaminates in our food, meat protein is also low in oxygen. Cancer thrives in low oxygen and high blood sugar.

The studies and lists which show meat eating to be disastrous to humans are long and extensive. More extensive than the university student who had a bone to pick with frugivores. Statistically, vegetarian/vegans live longer healthier lives.

Most spiritual traditions advocate a vegetarian diet. It is ridiculous to think that humans should and need meat products to live a healthy life. In fact it is the total opposite, and citing research which does not address these very relevant issues will not change the facts.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:57 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

I hate this sort of vegetarian sanctimonious moralising - it is simply an attempt to force one world view on another.

AndreG, you make statements about the potential chemical pollution of meat products, but you completely fail to even begin to address the massive pollution of fruits and vegetables through use of pesticides, fertilisers, and similar chemical controls used extensively in agriculture.

Even the EU notes that there are tens of thousands of chemicals used for normal arable food production that have never undergone proper regulation. That's why many people are carrying latent levels of dioxons and pcb's in their bodies.

You fail to address the fact that pollution from fertilisers and pesticides are predominantly the results of arable, rather than pastoral farming.

We haven't even begun to address how these chemicals are impacting the natural world, other than note than some of the derivative compounds are oestrogen mimics that are having very profound physiological effects on a wide range of species.

I've been veggie for 19 years now - and reading your comments, all I can see is some new convert desperate to justify their choice. The "facts" you quote are unsustainable, presented from biased sources.

As for the spiritual proscription - that's because the consideration that other animals are sentient to some degree and at least feel pain and are sensitive to suffering - and to inflict pain is a horrifying prospect when spiritually aware. And yet...plants can communicate and show a degree of awareness, too. That's why the spiritual path can easily turn someone from eating any form of living creature, whether animal or plant, and eat only fruit.

If you're going to claim a brain, use it instead of regurgitating propagandist shte from other people. Thinking is actually a really good exercise, and independent of dietary preferences.
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:25 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

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I hate this sort of vegetarian sanctimonious moralising - it is simply an attempt to force one world view on another.

AndreG, you make statements about the potential chemical pollution of meat products, but you completely fail to even begin to address the massive pollution of fruits and vegetables through use of pesticides, fertilisers, and similar chemical controls used extensively in agriculture.

Even the EU notes that there are tens of thousands of chemicals used for normal arable food production that have never undergone proper regulation. That's why many people are carrying latent levels of dioxons and pcb's in their bodies.

You fail to address the fact that pollution from fertilisers and pesticides are predominantly the results of arable, rather than pastoral farming.

We haven't even begun to address how these chemicals are impacting the natural world, other than note than some of the derivative compounds are oestrogen mimics that are having very profound physiological effects on a wide range of species.

I've been veggie for 19 years now - and reading your comments, all I can see is some new convert desperate to justify their choice. The "facts" you quote are unsustainable, presented from biased sources.

As for the spiritual proscription - that's because the consideration that other animals are sentient to some degree and at least feel pain and are sensitive to suffering - and to inflict pain is a horrifying prospect when spiritually aware. And yet...plants can communicate and show a degree of awareness, too. That's why the spiritual path can easily turn someone from eating any form of living creature, whether animal or plant, and eat only fruit.

If you're going to claim a brain, use it instead of regurgitating propagandist shte from other people. Thinking is actually a really good exercise, and independent of dietary preferences.
Brian I have been vegan much longer than you have. I am fully aware of both sides of the debate - through direct experience.

You've chosen to ignore facts and revert to insults...

There is no debate on the use of organic and sustainable farming methods, why would you even bring that up? I am assuming that anyone who is commenting on this discussion has the sense to eat organic, whole foods.

The fact of the matter is that meat and animal products carry a MUCH higher load of toxins than veg. This is undeniable. Meat does not promote health, it promotes dis-ease, the research is available. Hippocrates, Tree of Life... so many institutes are succesfully treating these illnesses with a raw food vegan diet. Hypoglycemics and Type1 are being taken completely off of insulin, regulating their blood sugar, with a raw vegan diet. A animal based diet is old news, antiquated, done with, over, finito. The climbing rates of cancer, diabetes, degenerative disease and birth deffects are absolutely frightening.



It's sad that you feel the need to take this personally, obviously some buttons are being pushed.

Enjoy your lunch
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:56 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: Why you believe that non-vegetarian

Well I'm sorry, but you're the one being patronising, and refusing to acknowledge a balanced argument - instead posting extremely selective bits of information which of course you have simply picked up from propagandist literature.

You haven't countered any of my points, though, but instead tried to side line it by pointing out that organic farming is less polluting. That doesn't address the issue of existing arable farming practices, nor the fact that our bodies and much of the world is being polluted not because of pastoral farming, but because of arable farming.

The bottom line is that you have done nothing but post misinformation, and as a veggie reading misinformation about vegetarianism, I am certainly going to challenge it.

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There is no debate on the use of organic and sustainable farming methods, why would you even bring that up? I am assuming that anyone who is commenting on this discussion has the sense to eat organic, whole foods.
Does this include organic meat? I suspect you will not accept that point, because your argument is not about sustainability, nor about organic methods, but instead a direct attempt to posture morale superiority based on what you eat.
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