Women Priests

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Dream

Hey AndrewX, that is really fascinating. Actually its going to take some time for me to absorb the things that have been discussed in this thread, but I wanted to especially request if you know what the gnostics thought about the number 13? Does that also have a masculine/feminine concept going for it? I'm asking, because you could actually count 13 apostles if you included both Iscariot and Matthias, plus with all the other extra apostles you can get an even larger number. There are 13 constellations - not twelve, and you could say there are 10, 11, 12, or even 13 sons of Jacob / Israel, if you wanted to count them that way.

Dream, I thought about your question ... and only a couple of things occur to me. I'll share what I came up with, but I'm guessing there are folks at CR who would have a lot more insight into the numerological significance of `13' than I do. This is kind of an aside, anyway, since I just wanted to show how the Heavens are mirrored into the earthly, and how the lack of the Divine Feminine is something sticking out like a sore thumb (on this planet, at this point in history) ... in need of bandaging.

Here goes:

One observation I make is that the number thirteen contains within it the concept of Unity (or non-duality), of duality, of the trinity, and even of the fourfold body of expression which incarnates the Holy Trinity (both in Cosmos and in the human being) ... thus it also implies the Septenate.

The `1' in 13 is the Unity, the `3' is the Trinity, the relationship between these two numbers is the duality of the UNmanifest Godhead vs. the Triune expression of Deity (at abstract levels, even prior to the Creation of Cosmos). Once the work of the Trinity has begun the Divine Septenate also comes into expression, with four (the numerical combination of 1 + 3) being the "counterpart" of the Trinity, and standing for the attributes of Deity vs. the Aspects (also known as the Four Directions or Four Elements).

So 13 may actually be one of the more sublime numbers, symbolically speaking, despite its bad reputation in popular lore. Even at face value it contains a reference to the Supreme ONE, while also including the first active expression of the One, the Trinity.

Another place 13 occurs, in Christian teachings, is in the numbering of the Apostles, as you mention. They were 12, without Christ, but when counting Christ as the head of the Group, there were always 13 -- both before Christ's crucifixion, and afterward. The esoteric tradition maintains that Jesus taught the disciples for 3 year in the body, and for another 30 out of it. So at all times, both before St. Paul and during St. Paul's day, one should properly count 13.

As for astrology, I'm pretty much unversed in the finer points, but I do understand that the number of constellations changes with our Solar System's transit through the heavens. Thus the number will actually increase, or decrease, and I seem to recall that we are headed toward nine constellations ... and that there once numbered thirteen, but I might have that backwards, or - wrong. lol

Anyway, that's all I came up with, but maybe someone else has some insights?

Peace,

andrew

[seattlegal]

13 is often considered as a number of transformation.
The observer and the observed.

[Quahom1]

this is about women priests, not gnosticism...Andrews, please bear that in mind.

thanks.

Q

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

this is about women priests, not gnosticism...Andrews, please bear that in mind.

thanks.

Q

Sorry.

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

this is about women priests, not gnosticism...Andrews, please bear that in mind.

thanks.

Q

NP, Q, just answering a question asked. You might notice I acknowledged what you just reminded me of in my post ... before you reminded me. Hmmm.

Oh, and the thread did get moved. Before, it was "fair game" ... but as for the actual topic, I thought what Netti-Netti posted (http://www.comparative-religion.com/...6-post142.html) might be interesting, but I can't get the link to work.

Could you relink it please? Or maybe I misunderstood ...

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

NP, Q, just answering a question asked. You might notice I acknowledged what you just reminded me of in my post ... before you reminded me. Hmmm.

Oh, and the thread did get moved. Before, it was "fair game" ... but as for the actual topic, I thought what Netti-Netti posted (http://www.comparative-religion.com/...6-post142.html) might be interesting, but I can't get the link to work.

Could you relink it please? Or maybe I misunderstood ...

Women priests website

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Women priests website

She's fast, she's quick, she's just the kind of chi...eh, woman (wise), that the bible talks about. Sarah...

v/r

Q

[Dogbrain]

I'm going to throw in the Orthodox perspective on the matter:

Among the Orthodox, we only ordain men because we have only ordained men. Yes, it does sound foolish by the standards of this world. However, inasmuch as we can understand, this Tradition is a Tradition from the Apostles, who were themselves ordained by God. We really don't know why.

That being said, there has never been any dogmatic formulation against ordination of women. It is something that simply has never been done. We cling to our traditions, perhaps a little too strongly, but that is what we do. Irrational? Yes, we are foolish in this world.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Dogbrain

I'm going to throw in the Orthodox perspective on the matter:

Among the Orthodox, we only ordain men because we have only ordained men. Yes, it does sound foolish by the standards of this world. However, inasmuch as we can understand, this Tradition is a Tradition from the Apostles, who were themselves ordained by God. We really don't know why.

That being said, there has never been any dogmatic formulation against ordination of women. It is something that simply has never been done. We cling to our traditions, perhaps a little too strongly, but that is what we do. Irrational? Yes, we are foolish in this world.

Namaste and welcome to CR Dogbrain,

Can you indicate from which orthodoxy you speak?

[Dogbrain]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste and welcome to CR Dogbrain,

Can you indicate from which orthodoxy you speak?

I am within the Eastern Orthodox Church, although my discussions with Oriental Orthodox lead me to believe that they have a very similar doctrine.

NB: "Eastern Orthodox" INCLUDES "Russian Orthodox", "Greek Orthodox", and many other such Orthodox jurisdictions. We are one Church.

[dauer]

Hey Dogbrain.

Welcome to the forums. I spoke with you on another forum and am glad you decided to come by.

-- Dauer