Women Priests - Page 9

Thomas · 08-11-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Don't get me wrong. I understand the need for caretakers and organization, especially within the early church.

Really? Well I suppose that's a start ... the next thing to understand is that Christ does not make ephemeral statements, His words exist in eternity and apply to all times and to all people ...

We are the flock ... He appointed the shepherds.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Isn't that the lesson Peter learned from the Spirit in Acts 10?

No ... he learnt that Gentile as well as Jew was called to the Church which Christ founded, and therefore Gentile as well as Jew would be numbered among the flock that Peter was called to be Shepherd of that flock entrusted to him by his Master — I think you'll find that John 21:15-17 is the more suitable means by which Peter was forgiven for his failure in John 13.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlegal

By this all people will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

Precisely ... and where is that love for one another, as disciples of Christ, more evident than in His Church?

Where more than in the House of the saints, the sages, the mystics, down through the ages ... or do you see it evident more in those who go round, complaining about the church, finding fault, telling everyone what's wrong with it, how it ought to be ... ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlegal

He put his trust in God over his own expectations, and yielded to the Spirit.

I know ... if only people would do the same, but they don't, do they, rather they choose to put their trust in themselves, in the belief that they know better

Thomas

Thomas · 08-11-2008, 10:26 PM

Really, there is no point in further discussion, is there.

On the one hand saints, sages, mystics, a philosophy and a metaphysic that is recognised as sublime by every spiritual tradition in the world ... and with each deepening step I take, a deepening Mystery ...

... on the other politics and personal opinion ...

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God bless all,

Thomas

lunamoth · 08-11-2008, 10:33 PM

I've not read this whole long thread, but I'd like to chime in again that having women priests does not represent a capitulation to secular society. Women were among Jesus' disciples, and were the first witnesses to the Resurrection. Jesus' taught time and again to be inclusive, and also that 'tradition' can be wrong! And, the Church can learn from secular thinking. We always want to put ourselves at the center, just like we wanted the earth to be the center of the universe. But both views prove to be too small.

Women sometimes feel called to serve the Church in this specialized role, and as often as men do they do a spectacular job of it. The tradition against women priests is not so much outdated as it is an unecessary restriction placed by the culture of Jesus' time, and reinforced in the centuries that followed.

Netti-Netti · 08-11-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

Really, there is no point in further discussion, is there.

There isn't?

The Church had theological dissensions that went on over hundreds of years. Surely you're not suggesting all controversies have been resolved once and for all.

Your most recent posts are among the most misleading to date, Thomas. I have every intention of addressing them as time permits. In the meantime, I would be grateful if you would cite the part of the Scripture where St John the Apostle talks about the Trinity.

17th Angel · 08-12-2008, 12:17 AM

Ahh things in their proper place... Good stuff.

Quahom1 · 08-12-2008, 12:17 AM

Since this thread has definitely gravitated towards Christian ethics, concerning women priests, moved to Christianity.

v/r

Q

Quahom1 · 08-12-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex P

Ahh things in their proper place... Good stuff.

Lol, in as little as...

17th Angel · 08-12-2008, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Lol, in as little as...

wil · 08-12-2008, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

Really, there is no point in further discussion, is there.

On the one hand saints, sages, mystics, a philosophy and a metaphysic that is recognised as sublime by every spiritual tradition in the world ... and with each deepening step I take, a deepening Mystery ...

... on the other politics and personal opinion ...

+++

God bless all,

Thomas

Namaste Thomas,

I guess all us that aren't Catholics are now not even part of a spiritual tradition. Why Catholics wonder why they are bashed is beyond me, could it be the pedestal they put themselves on? Could it be claiming the corner on truth? (hint, so many do the exact same thing, and use the exact same reasoning ie we are the only ones that know the true bible teachings and we are the only ones who can teach it to you...don't listen to any of those others...oh and if you do, after I tell you you are going to hell I'll pray for your soul...so nice.)

Your saints and mystics apply to your faith, not all faith. While I respect your faith again it always baffles me how you don't allow mine. There are female priests in many religions and many Christian denominations.

I believe you believe the garden to be metaphor, how can you state what a metaphorical character believes as any more than what it is?

Quahom1 · 08-12-2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Thomas,

I guess all us that aren't Catholics are now not even part of a spiritual tradition. Why Catholics wonder why they are bashed is beyond me, could it be the pedestal they put themselves on? Could it be claiming the corner on truth? (hint, so many do the exact same thing, and use the exact same reasoning ie we are the only ones that know the true bible teachings and we are the only ones who can teach it to you...don't listen to any of those others...oh and if you do, after I tell you you are going to hell I'll pray for your soul...so nice.)

Your saints and mystics apply to your faith, not all faith. While I respect your faith again it always baffles me how you don't allow mine. There are female priests in many religions and many Christian denominations.

I believe you believe the garden to be metaphor, how can you state what a metaphorical character believes as any more than what it is?

Those that profess the catholic faith, tend to like it that way (male and female). It seems the outside (for lack of a better term), do not like the way the Roman church has established the order. But in reality, for non Roman catholics, that is the RC's affair, not subject to debate by those looking in.

On the other hand, I have never heard of a priest ignoring a Reverand/Pastor/Priest from another Christian denomination. So, I fail to see the delemma...

Netti-Netti · 08-12-2008, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

On the one hand saints, sages, mystics, a philosophy and a metaphysic that is recognised as sublime by every spiritual tradition in the world

.... But ironically they were not always so recognised by the church.

How many of the saints, sages, mystics were tried for heresy, martyred or excommunicated by the church ? How many left on their own? Even one of your own sources - Tertullian - left the church!

Quahom1 · 08-12-2008, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

.... But ironically they were not always so recognised by the church.

How many of the saints, sages, mystics were tried for heresy, martyred or excommunicated by the church ? How many left on their own? Even one of your own sources - Tertullian - left the church!

As did I, for a long time...

seattlegal · 08-12-2008, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

Precisely ... and where is that love for one another, as disciples of Christ, more evident than in His Church?

Where more than in the House of the saints, the sages, the mystics, down through the ages ... or do you see it evident more in those who go round, complaining about the church, finding fault, telling everyone what's wrong with it, how it ought to be ... ?

2 Peter 2 has the answer:

2 Peter 2:1-3
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their unrestrained ways, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 In their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation, [pronounced] long ago, is not idle, and their destruction does not sleep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sg

He put his trust in God over his own expectations, and yielded to the Spirit.

I know ... if only people would do the same, but they don't, do they, rather they choose to put their trust in themselves, in the belief that they know better

Thomas

As 2 Peter 2:19 says:

19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption, since people are enslaved to whatever defeats them.

Corruption enslaves--the truth sets you free.

Quahom1 · 08-12-2008, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlegal

2 Peter 2 has the answer:

2 Peter 2:1-3

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their unrestrained ways, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 In their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation, [pronounced] long ago, is not idle, and their destruction does not sleep.

As 2 Peter 2:19 says:

19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption, since people are enslaved to whatever defeats them.

Corruption enslaves--the truth sets you free.

I have a Methodist Reverand, and I love her to death. I also have a Catholic Priest I think the world of. All of a sudden, this sounds like a free for all between women and men...

Who cares who wins the damn battles, all lose the war.

seattlegal · 08-12-2008, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I have a Methodist Reverand, and I love her to death. I also have a Catholic Priest I think the world of. All of a sudden, this sounds like a free for all between women and men...

Who cares who wins the damn battles, all lose the war.

Yep. You've got it, Q.