worship or serve the Christ?

[Basstian]

stick to pure bible teachings and you will no longer be misled .

OK Here we go.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: De 6:4

Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? Mal 2:10

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:1
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Joh 1:14

When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mat 16: 13-16

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. John 16


That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Col 2

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1tit 3:16

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1Jon 5


People who are Christians I have just given you enough old and new testament scripture to build profitable doctrine from.

One will Say Jesus is God. He came as God in the flesh and now is God in our hearts speaking to us on a spiritual level. You can build that doctrine and its supported by scripture above.

One will say The Father The Son The Spirit three in one The Father fully revealed in the OT The Son in the new and the Spirit at being fully poured out in that at pentecost. That Doctrine can be fully supported by scripture above.

One can also say Father sent the Son to make a way for us as sinners to come before the Father. Now we can approach the throne boldy calling God Father or abba (dad) as a Son or Daughter and that we will reign with Christ as the Sons of God him being the firstfruits. All Supported


You know what I dont know what I believe I think I could study all my life and I will only come to a full understanding of it when I finish this journey.

I say to you who believes in the trinity... Great doctrine But there is more for you to learn.

You who believes in the Deity of Christ Great doctrine but there is more for you to learn.

You who believes in Jehovah and the Jesus the son. Great Doctrine more for you to learn.

And I close with this little tidbit

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by bob x

Thomas did not address Jesus as Lord or God (if that had been so, the Greek "vocative case" would be used), he exclaimed "My Lord and my God", in astonishment at seeing Jesus alive, and giving the credit to God for the miracle. This is a big difference.

Pathetic attempt and completely untrue

My Lord and my God (Ho kurioߠmou kai o qeoߠmou). Not exclamation, but address, the vocative case though the form of the nominative, a very common thing in the Koin?. Thomas was wholly convinced and did not hesitate to address the Risen Christ as Lord and God. And Jesus accepts the words and praises Thomas for so doing.

[bob x]

"the vocative case though the form of the nominative, a very common thing in the Koin?"
No. Not for "Lord" (kyrie, in the vocative) or "God" (thee, in the vocative). Those two vocative cases still have not fused with the nominative even in modern Greek (where otherwise the vocative case is dead).
Probably there is a translation glitch and it ought to be "My Lord and *our* God" rendering the Hebrew "Adonay Eloheynu", a very solemn exclamation.

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

you calling the trinity false, deception, led astray, paganism on a christian forum is getting annoying and tiring to say the least..

if a person is after truth ,
the light of truth will appeal to them. but staying in darkness will lead to more darkness . casting away manmade doctrines leads us ever closer to the true God, and also more inline with true bible teaching.so the question is do we really want truth inline with bible teaching , or have we allowed ourselves to be misled by the trinity teaching which is not a bible teaching at all . true christianity is what it is all about. and what better place to be than a thread that people go to if they are into the bible . the trinity teaching is not anything to do with the bible, but many down through the centuries have been well and truely misled

[mee]

[quote=Basstian;123338]OK Here we go.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: De 6:4
quote]
very true ,
Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. DE 6;4
Or, "Jehovah is our God, Jehovah is one [or, there is one Jehovah]." Lit., "Jehovah our God [is] Jehovah one." Heb., Yehwah´ ’Elo·heh´nu Yehwah´ ’e·chadh´.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Basstian

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6

Yes, Jesus sure is a mighty God but he is not THE ALMIGHTY GOD
6 For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Or, "Mighty Divine One." Heb., ’El Gib·bohr´ (not ’El Shad·dai´ as in Ge 17:1, )
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.
.

[mee]

Originally Posted by bob x

He said no such thing at the trial.


Thomas did not address Jesus as Lord or God (if that had been so, the Greek "vocative case" would be used), he exclaimed "My Lord and my God", in astonishment at seeing Jesus alive, and giving the credit to God for the miracle. This is a big difference.

Does

Thomas’ exclamation at John 20:28 prove that Jesus is truly God?

John 20:28 (RS) reads: "Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God!’"
There is no objection to referring to Jesus as "God," if this is what Thomas had in mind. Such would be in harmony with Jesus’ own quotation from the Psalms in which powerful men, judges, were addressed as "gods." (John 10:34, 35, RS; Ps. 82:1-6) Of course, Christ occupies a position far higher than such men. Because of the uniqueness of his position in relation to Jehovah, at John 1:18 (NW) Jesus is referred to as "the only-begotten god." (See also Ro, By.) Isaiah 9:6 (RS) also prophetically describes Jesus as "Mighty God," but not as the Almighty God. All of this is in harmony with Jesus’ being described as "a god," or "divine," at John 1:1 (NW, AT).

The context helps us to draw the right conclusion from this. Shortly before Jesus’ death, Thomas had heard Jesus’ prayer in which he addressed his Father as "the only true God." (John 17:3, RS) After Jesus’ resurrection Jesus had sent a message to his apostles, including Thomas, in which he had said: "I am ascending . . . to my God and your God." (John 20:17, RS) After recording what Thomas said when he actually saw and touched the resurrected Christ, the apostle John stated: "These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:31, RS) So, if anyone has concluded from Thomas’ exclamation that Jesus is himself "the only true God" or that Jesus is a Trinitarian "God the Son," he needs to look again at what Jesus himself said (vs. 17) and at the conclusion that is clearly stated by the apostle John (vs. 31).

[mee]

[quote=wil;123332]Namaste all,

I think this is a perfect example of what we need to work on in this world.

Unless I am wrong both Blazn and mee consider themselves Christian. As we discussed on this thread, Jesus said the most important thing is forgiveness, all your worship, prayers, serving, offerings are for not unless you've made peace with your brother.

quote] lets go back to Jesus day , the promenent religious leaders of his day regarded themselves to be Gods representatives, and Jesus did not shy away from telling them of their unfaithfulness. and Jesus fortold Jerusalem would be destroyed , and it all came true just as he fortold.
The desolating of unbelieving Jewish Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. is a type or prophetic picture of the desolating of modern-day Christendom, which is likewise unbelieving as regards the Holy Bible and its Author, Jehovah God. and as a follower of Jesus christ and following his example true christians are not slow in making known falsehood . and the trinity teaching is a falsehood and it is a great apostacy from pure bible teachings . Jesus was even put to death by the religious leaders of his day , because he exposed their wrong ways .
Christendom, because of her apostasy, has become a part of the world empire of false religion, Babylon the Great. Because of this, God’s judgments on Babylon the Great will especially be visited on Christendom, since she is the guiltiest part of that conglomerate.—Revelation 19:1-3.

[Basstian]

While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? Mat 22

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1


If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?


Oh the Mystery


To say Jesus is a mighty God.... But not the Almighty God.

Then go with
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: De 6:4

Would it just be easier to call Jesus... God with us
I can support that title with alot of scripture and not have to place my own twist on any of it.

How'd you get here not dressed for the wedding?

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by mee

if a person is after truth ,
the light of truth will appeal to them. but staying in darkness will lead to more darkness . casting away manmade doctrines leads us ever closer to the true God, and also more inline with true bible teaching.so the question is do we really want truth inline with bible teaching , or have we allowed ourselves to be misled by the trinity teaching which is not a bible teaching at all . true christianity is what it is all about. and what better place to be than a thread that people go to if they are into the bible . the trinity teaching is not anything to do with the bible, but many down through the centuries have been well and truely misled

Again with the attacks on christians. Christians that believe in the trinity are not in darkness, they do seek after the light of truth, they are not misled, the are not part of the world empire of false religion, and the concept of the trinity is in the bible, which many have shown you many times in many verses that all intertwine.

[wil]

Originally Posted by mee

lets go back to Jesus day , the promenent religious leaders of his day regarded themselves to be Gods representatives, and Jesus did not shy away from telling them of their unfaithfulness. and Jesus fortold Jerusalem would be destroyed , and it all came true just as he fortold.
The desolating of unbelieving Jewish Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. is a type or prophetic picture of the desolating of modern-day Christendom, which is likewise unbelieving as regards the Holy Bible and its Author, Jehovah God. and as a follower of Jesus christ and following his example true christians are not slow in making known falsehood . and the trinity teaching is a falsehood and it is a great apostacy from pure bible teachings . Jesus was even put to death by the religious leaders of his day , because he exposed their wrong ways .
Christendom, because of her apostasy, has become a part of the world empire of false religion, Babylon the Great. Because of this, God’s judgments on Babylon the Great will especially be visited on Christendom, since she is the guiltiest part of that conglomerate.—Revelation 19:1-3.

Namaste mee, so my error? You adn JWs don't consider yourself Christian, ie part of Christendom? Or like countless others you are saying that JWs are the only members of the one and true religion? Oh, that gets so old.

So I looked up Author

au·thor play_w("A0531900") (ôthr)n.1. a. The writer of a book, article, or other text.
b. One who practices writing as a profession.

2. One who writes or constructs an electronic document or system, such as a website.
3. An originator or creator, as of a theory or plan.
4. Author God.

Now I like Author, that identifies G!d as the creator....but as author of the bible...only in the sense that he is the Author of all, and in that sense he is the Author of Darwin's Theory, and every book printed, and every religion on earth....but as author of the books which were canonized and assembled by the group that you are blanketing with disdain...we know better....there were many authors, and compilers, and editors.

So to be clear are you know longer considering yourself a Christian? Brethren to those that discuss Christian topics on this the Christian board? Are you now an outsider coming in to tell us that our beliefs are wrong and we are headed to hell? If that is the case is it possible you have moved on and are now on the wrong discussion board?

[Basstian]

Needs to be pointed out again there are many denominations within the Christian faith that believe a Oneness doctrine, also many that have different views on the deity of Christ and Trinity doctrines.

I pointed earlier to scripture which would support any and all of those doctrines.

Christ died to save sinner of whom I am chief is an understatement in my life.

I know I am saved but I understand very little of what took for God to accomplish that in my life.
I have a book I can hold in the palm of my small human hands how dare I presume I know all about God or what it took thousands of years to accomplish on my behalf.
More so how dare I presume to understand what works were done for you.

It should not be this way.

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Breaking News story ***** YOU DONT KNOW IT ALL *****

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

I feel like if I just had this bit of truth and believed it....

[mee]

Originally Posted by Basstian

While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? Mat 22

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1


If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?


Oh the Mystery


To say Jesus is a mighty God.... But not the Almighty God.

Then go with
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: De 6:4

Would it just be easier to call Jesus... God with us
I can support that title with alot of scripture and not have to place my own twist on any of it.

How'd you get here not dressed for the wedding?

Now while the Pharisees were gathered together Jesus asked them: 42 "What do YOU think about the Christ? Whose son is he?" They said to him: "David’s." 43 He said to them: "How, then, is it that David by inspiration calls him ‘Lord,’ saying, 44 ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet"’? 45 If, therefore, David calls him ‘Lord,’ how is he his son?" 46 And nobody was able to say a word in reply to him, nor did anyone dare from that day on to question him any further.

Is

Jehovah in the "Old Testament" Jesus Christ in the "New Testament"?

Matt. 4:10: "Jesus said to him: ‘Go away, Satan! For it is written, "It is Jehovah ["the Lord," KJ and others] your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."’" (Jesus was obviously not saying that he himself was to be worshiped.)
John 8:54: "Jesus answered [the Jews]: ‘If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, he who you say is your God.’" (The Hebrew Scriptures clearly identify Jehovah as the God that the Jews professed to worship. Jesus said, not that he himself was Jehovah, but that Jehovah was his Father. Jesus here made it very clear that he and his Father were distinct individuals.)
Ps. 110:1: "The utterance of Jehovah to my [David’s] Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’" (At Matthew 22:41-45, Jesus explained that he himself was David’s "Lord," referred to in this psalm. So Jesus is not Jehovah but is the one to whom Jehovah’s words were here directed.)

Phil. 2:9-11: "For this very reason also God exalted him [Jesus Christ] to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. [Dy reads: " . . . every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father." Kx and CC read similarly, but a footnote in Kx acknowledges: " . . . the Greek is perhaps more naturally rendered ‘to the glory,’" and NAB and JB render it that way.]" (Notice that Jesus Christ is here shown to be different from God the Father and subject to Him.)
But with reference to the Son: "God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners." hebrews 1;8

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

Again with the attacks on christians. Christians that believe in the trinity are not in darkness, they do seek after the light of truth, they are not misled, the are not part of the world empire of false religion, and the concept of the trinity is in the bible, which many have shown you many times in many verses that all intertwine.

many people are after bible truth and purity, but many are led along by manmade doctrines. for those after bible truth and purity , the truth sets them free. humility works wonders . and serving God in spirit and truth is the way to go .

[mee]

Originally Posted by Basstian

Needs to be pointed out again there are many denominations within the Christian faith that believe a Oneness doctrine, also many that have different views on the deity of Christ and Trinity doctrines.

I pointed earlier to scripture which would support any and all of those doctrines.

Christ died to save sinner of whom I am chief is an understatement in my life.

I know I am saved but I understand very little of what took for God to accomplish that in my life.
I have a book I can hold in the palm of my small human hands how dare I presume I know all about God or what it took thousands of years to accomplish on my behalf.
More so how dare I presume to understand what works were done for you.

It should not be this way.

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Breaking News story ***** YOU DONT KNOW IT ALL *****

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

I feel like if I just had this bit of truth and believed it....

JOHN 17;3
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

(Ephesians 4:13) until we all attain to the oneness in the faith and in the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ;

(Philippians 1:9) And this is what I continue praying, that YOUR love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment;

(1 Timothy 6:20) O Timothy, guard what is laid up in trust with you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called "knowledge."

(2 Peter 3:18) No, but go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him [be] the glory both now and to the day of eternity.

(1 Corinthians 2:13) These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by [the] spirit, as we combine spiritual [matters] with spiritual [words].

(1 Corinthians 3:19) For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: "He catches the wise in their own cunning."

(Colossians 2:8) Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry YOU off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;