Would paradise on earth really be paradise?

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Alex P

Would hell on Earth, really be hell?

It is, and it's pronounced hull.

s.

[17th Angel]

lol! Which the former or later?

[Dharmaatmaa]

Hardly I could write this ideas so correct as it'd done Andrew. It's the most truthlike opinion I've ever hoped to find here, on thses pages. I do believe we go close and close to that beautiful time, when will of Gods is known to everyone, because western people begin speak with Oriental tonge and Oriental mouth. You're the most perfect theosophist (theoritician of eastern occultism) I've seen.

But I don't think it's a good thing to study mantrams. Firstly, real mantrams has a real power, whatever people think of them. Secondly, as I understand the mantra's power is into sounds included in letters of it. Do you know someone who's a speciaist in Mantrika-Vidya? They are very rare.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Alex P

lol! Which the former or later?

It's just south of Dystopia, on the B616.

s.

[arthra]

I found this quote from Abdul-Baha that kind of relates to the earlier theme I was posting about.. The Peaceable Kingdom:

Every war is against the good pleasure of the Lord of mankind, for man is the edifice of God and war destroys the divine edifice. If an active, actual peace is brought about, the human world will attain to the utmost serenity and composure; wolves will be transformed into lambs, devils into angels, and terrors into divine splendors in less than the twinkling of an eye.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 85)

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Imagine an earth where humanity experiences no suffering, no pain, no death, no disease, no illness, no loss or want for anything...

Sometimes various cultures suggest this as a state of paradise - but would it be so?

When you consider what physical existence would entail under such considerations of "perfection", in my opinion all you would have is the complete stagnation of humanity.

If there is no sickness or death, no problems to solve, then what is there to aspire to? What boundaries would there be to break and surpass? It is hard to imagine anyone having anything but the most banal and mundane motivations. The human species would be in a state of living death, moving forward to nothing, aspiring to nothing, and never attempting to break the bonds of its own physical restrictions.

Additionally, eternal life as a physical human being would be the ultimate punishment - forever separate from God, trapped in this limited and restrictive vessel, with no Heaven or transcendence of experience to perhaps look forward to.

When you look at the universe, in all its complexities and degrees of scale, then the idea that there is nothing more within each one of us but a cluster of cells that function and die is perhaps one of the most unimaginative visions of all.

And whilst there are many different interpretations of what vision for humanity may be, whether it is Christian or Buddhist, Islamic or Confucian, Jewish or Wiccan, there is one clear theme among them all - we must all strive to become the best that we may be.

Without that sense of striving, what human spirit is there left to aspire with?

Just my 2c.

Hi Brian

My path is not Anthroposophy but I do believe that Rudolph Steiner was right for dividing what we know as the Devil into Lucifer and Ahriman. All this imagination in New Age philosophy referring to our connection to La La Land is really Luciferic and in reality assures the separation between man and God. The aspiration you refer to I believe is in creating the conscious connection between above and below.

But to strive to become the best we can is impossible for those living in imagination in Plato's cave. My experience on the Internet and on several sites has convinced me that this is the most insulting idea to consider since it is such an affront to our ego and especially our religious ego. If nothing else the dominance of secularism and the ignorance of what it denies us is proof of the effect of the human condition.

Change other than in form following lawful cycles as described in Ecclesiastes 3 is impossible since aspiration is limited by these cycles normal for cave life.

"The future is made of the same stuff as the present." Simone Weil

In order to change the future we have to change the present which we cannot do in Plato's cave. But we can consciously change the present in ourselves. To do so however first requires the impartial evaluation of our own human condition not in terms of society but rather our own conscious presence. But since it is normal for cave life to assume we have conscious presence or conscious self awareness, it is easy to get lost in platitudes in relation to tomorrow.

However since collectively we are what we are everything remains as it is following lawful natural cycles which our aspirations further.

To aspire to awaken to reality requires first coming to witness that we are as described by Paul, the "wretched man" and in opposition to ourselves. This is too insulting except for a minority.

Aspiration for me first requires deciding what to aspire to. How to give to God what is God and to Caesar what is Caesar's? Some aspire for the "pearl of great worth." What is that? But I am still too cowardly to sacrifice all for it and am still the "wretched man" and a slave to imagination.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Alex P

Would hell on Earth, really be hell?

so what is hell ?
sheol ,hades .

mankinds common grave will be gone for good no more death on the earth ,as it will have been swallowed up for ever

[17th Angel]

I was just unleashing some of my Zen master skills...