Wrathful Ishvara??

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

While reading the book "Joyful Path of Good Fortune" by the Buddhist Master Venerable Geshe Kelsang Gyatso I came across a reference to the god Ishvara. I have never really been overly interested in Gods so this was the first time I had heard of Him. He was referred to as Wrathfull Ishvara and was said to be the highest God of the Desire realm and a powerful aid to those who put their trust in him. He was also said to be a terrible enemy of those who seek enlightenment.

Then I spoke to a good friend of mine who is a Hindu, primarily worshipping Shiva. He told me that Ishvara is actually a very benevolent God who is a great help to those who seek enlightenment.

I would like to know if anyone has any insight on this matter, from a Hindu or Buddhist point of view. What manner of God is Ishvara?

[Pathless]

From what I've learned, Ishvara is actually similar to the concept of Brahman; so, it's another name for the ultimate goal of the spiritual seeker. When I was involved in Ananda Marga, they talked about "Ishvara Pranidam" (sp?), which meant keeping your mind focused on your goal, or keeping your mind focused on the supreme state, the unity of all things.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,


thank you for the post AF.

Ishvara is, for all intents and purposes, the "creator" God in the Sanatana Dharma. MahaBrahma is more abstract than Ishvara and thus doesn't engage in these sorts of things. Ishvara is, within the context of Buddha Dharma at least, the Creator Deity that was held as the creator of this world system. of course the operative understanding is that Ishvara, like all the Gods, is an Avatar of MahaBrahma and is only distinguished as such for the relative understand that we typically operate with.

in some sense, Ishvara is like the Demi-Urge that is talked about amongst the Gnostic Christian sects.. more of a reflection of God rather than God.

[tatvamasi]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

While reading the book "Joyful Path of Good Fortune" by the Buddhist Master Venerable Geshe Kelsang Gyatso I came across a reference to the god Ishvara. I have never really been overly interested in Gods so this was the first time I had heard of Him. He was referred to as Wrathfull Ishvara and was said to be the highest God of the Desire realm and a powerful aid to those who put their trust in him. He was also said to be a terrible enemy of those who seek enlightenment.

Then I spoke to a good friend of mine who is a Hindu, primarily worshipping Shiva. He told me that Ishvara is actually a very benevolent God who is a great help to those who seek enlightenment.

I would like to know if anyone has any insight on this matter, from a Hindu or Buddhist point of view. What manner of God is Ishvara?

In Sanatana Dharma, Ishvara is considered to be the Creator God, or more specifically Brahman with attributes. Brahman is held to be beyond human conception. But when man tries to conceive of Brahman, he comes up with the Almighty Ishvara.

Brahman is Nirguna(without attributes) while Ishvara is Saguna(infinite attributes). Advaitin's point of view is that the concept of Ishvara is introduced to explain the concept of creation for those who are interested to know about creation.

Also the wrathful Ishvara seems to be like Shiva to me but in Sanatana Dharma, Shiva worship leads to enlightenment.

We believe there is nothing but Brahman. It would be like Brahman worshipping Brahman where the act of worship is also Brahman.

[satay]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

He was referred to as Wrathfull Ishvara and was said to be the highest God of the Desire realm and a powerful aid to those who put their trust in him. He was also said to be a terrible enemy of those who seek enlightenment.

Namaste Awaiting the faith,

In the context of Sanatan Dharma at least there is no such thing as Wratful Ishvara. Ishvara as already explained here on this thread is Saguna Brahman i.e. Brhaman with attributes. This saguna brahman is also known as Mahesvra, Isa, Isana etc.

Ishvara or Saguna Brhaman is also worshipped under various personifications - as Shiva, Vishnu, Rama and so on, the ideal deities i.e. Ishata Devatas of various hindu sects.

Then I spoke to a good friend of mine who is a Hindu, primarily worshipping Shiva. He told me that Ishvara is actually a very benevolent God who is a great help to those who seek enlightenment.

Shiva is actually a loving God. He is responsible for destruction yet in that destruction is implied creation. Creation can only happen if there is destruction. So he makes the way for creation to happen. And thus the cylce continues. Shiva is also known as bole nath. It is said that he is very easy to please with simple bhakti.

Om namho Shivya
satay

[I, Brian]

Great responses - many thanks for those.