wy do people think jesus was god - Page 11

BlaznFattyz · 11-18-2006, 07:10 PM

i know jesus is god because he is the creator of all things.

Jesus Christ:
John 1:3, "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."
Col. 1:16-17, "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."

God (YHWH):
Job 33:4, "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
Isaiah 40:28, "Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom."

BlaznFattyz · 11-18-2006, 07:26 PM

to say jesus was a jewish teacher of great wisdom or of truth that taught in synagogues and to the masses, yet their respective books and beliefs do not study or acknowledge his words nor of gods words that proclaim him, nor prophets words that announce him, nor apostles words that witness and testify of him, then that is just giving lip-service to appease others, to play both sides of the fence, and to appear open to jesus the man, the teacher, the prophet, but not jesus as god. it may seem subtle to some, but to deny jesus is god, to deny the divinity of jesus christ, to deny the son honor and the worship as the son of god, the creator, the saviour, that is anti-christ.

Jesus answered and said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, a son cannot do anything on his own, but only what he sees his father doing; for what he does, his son will do also.

For the Father loves his Son and shows him everything that he himself does, and he will show him greater works than these, so that you may be amazed.

For just as the Father raises the dead and gives life, so also does the Son give life to whomever he wishes.

Nor does the Father judge anyone, but he has given all judgment to his Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life.

Amen, amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the possession of life in himself.

And he gave him power to exercise judgment, because he is the Son of Man.

JosephM · 11-18-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

i know jesus is god because he is the creator of all things.

Jesus Christ:
John 1:3, "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."
Col. 1:16-17, "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."

Hi BlaznFatty,

Thanks for sharing your reasons for that understanding. It seems to me what you quote is referencing Christ which is a title that Jesus held. It is also your hope of glory that Christ be formed in you. Col. 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
In my understanding Christ is not the man Jesus who manifested the annointing spirit of God (Christ) but rather that Christ is the annointing of divinity by which God himself made all things. That annointing or light was in Jesus as it is in all men. John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Therefore I do not see the man Jesus as more than my elder brother who overcame the world and manifested that light to all and showed the way of love to do the same.

Quote:

God (YHWH):
Job 33:4, "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
Isaiah 40:28, "Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom."

This is a good writing but the word Lord used in that reference is 'Yehovah' and is merely saying 'God is Jehovah' in the Hebrew. Nothing to do with saying Jesus is God.

Love in Christ,
JM

Quahom1 · 11-18-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephM

Hi BlaznFatty,

Thanks for sharing your reasons for that understanding. It seems to me what you quote is referencing Christ which is a title that Jesus held. It is also your hope of glory that Christ be formed in you. Col. 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
In my understanding Christ is not the man Jesus who manifested the annointing spirit of God (Christ) but rather that Christ is the annointing of divinity by which God himself made all things. That annointing or light was in Jesus as it is in all men. John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Therefore I do not see the man Jesus as more than my elder brother who overcame the world and manifested that light to all and showed the way of love to do the same.

This is a good writing but the word Lord used in that reference is 'Yehovah' and is merely saying 'God is Jehovah' in the Hebrew. Nothing to do with saying Jesus is God.

Love in Christ,
JM

What does "Jehovah" mean Joseph?

pattimax · 11-18-2006, 08:21 PM

Hey Cage,
[/quote]
I believe he loves his children, and I believe that we are all his children, as he created each and every one of us. I cannot reject the possibility that God is vengful against his children, as I don't know the mind of God, but I have my doubt. I feel his heart in mine, and I choose to serve him. His Love is above all else, and that is what I embrace. That doesn't mean I don't accept the totality of God, it just means that I embrace his Love as opposed to the other attributes man has put on him. I need not bother myself with his anger, or wrath, or his jealousy, as I serve him, and I know his Love.
[/quote]

Define “all”.
God cares for everyone, but he only loves those who come to him through Christ. Hence, the word “Christian.”
John 14:6-7
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would knowmy Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

[/quote]
The mind of Christ is 'wanting' to do the will God, and he showed us Gods will through his life, and example. It's not his death that stands out to me, it is his strength of heart, and compassion for man.
[/quote]

Focusing on the crucifixion is only beneficial if you do not lose sight of his beautiful resurrection. Unfortunately some well-meaningChristians have done that very thing in the past.

[/quote]
Christ is a beacon of light to me, a light by which I see. Jesus showed me things in his word that made a believer out me. I began to search for Jesus in the Scripture, (More so than usual) and I found a man who knew Gods Love, and actually lived it! A most amazing person Jesus was, and his Life, [Example] turned my life around. He showed me what it meant to embrace God, and accept the Love God has for every man, woman, and child.
[/quote]

John 8:12
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

[/quote]
Yet, man is a rebellious bunch, [I was too] and rejected his Love. This must break his heart, much like when a rebellious teen shows rejection to her parents. It would certainly break my heart...
[/quote]

Similar to the Old testament … (you should read it!)

[/quote]
If man would only embrace his Love, then they would most certainly understand the path I've chosen. His Love heals the soul, and it takes away the darkness. Christ was a beacon of this light, and a good and faithful Son to his father.
[/quote]

John 8:12
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

[/quote]
God certainly speaks through the Bible, and his truth is there hidden within its complexity. Yet, his Love speaks louder than written word, and guides us through the straight gate. As for me being ineffective, then I guess that would be my error. But, I'm not trying to change minds, I'm only trying to make known Gods Love, and will. Jesus showed us his will...God loves us, and wants us to embrace him! People need to know this, so they too can experience what he has given me.
[/quote]
YES!
But (and here is my original point) God speaks to you through the ENTIRE bible. Not just the nice Jesus parts.

[/quote]
How do you make a disciple? You plant seeds. Jesus was the messenger, sower, and the Son of God. He was a beacon of light, but God and his Spirit was the light that dwelled in Christ.
[/quote]

Vines are nice also.
John 15

[/quote]
We fail God when we reject his Love for us; we also fail ourselves...
[/quote]

How many true Christians permanently reject God’s love?

Sincerely,
pattimax

JosephM · 11-18-2006, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

to say jesus was a jewish teacher of great wisdom or of truth that taught in synagogues and to the masses, yet their respective books and beliefs do not study or acknowledge his words nor of gods words that proclaim him, nor prophets words that announce him, nor apostles words that witness and testify of him, then that is just giving lip-service to appease others, to play both sides of the fence, and to appear open to jesus the man, the teacher, the prophet, but not jesus as god. it may seem subtle to some, but to deny jesus is god, to deny the divinity of jesus christ, to deny the son honor and the worship as the son of god, the creator, the saviour, that is anti-christ.

Jesus answered and said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, a son cannot do anything on his own, but only what he sees his father doing; for what he does, his son will do also.

Excellent words. No doubt Jesus is God's son and he manifested divinity. Please don't deprive me of the same as God also created me and it says... Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BF

For the Father loves his Son and shows him everything that he himself does, and he will show him greater works than these, so that you may be amazed

.

Have you not yet seen the works of God come through you? Have you never been shown of God to lay hands on someone and they be healed? Hasn't God ever used you for mighty works? Perhaps not but that is not my experience.

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BF

For just as the Father raises the dead and gives life, so also does the Son give life to whomever he wishes.

Personally have not experienced that but Elisa did and Paul as a son of God did if you read Acts 20:9

Quote:

Nor does the Father judge anyone, but he has given all judgment to his Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

I have no problem with that one. And the son will always say from whose mouth he is speaking.... "forgiven".... "pardoned". That is the nature of infinite love. Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Walk in the spirit and you are a son and will not condemn because there is no condemnation in Christ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BF

Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BF

Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life.
Amen, amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the possession of life in himself.
And he gave him power to exercise judgment, because he is the Son of Man.

And your point? I acknowledge Jesus as son of God and the annointing which he manifested as the divinity of God but you have not shown me where he proclaimed himself as other than the Son of Man or the Son of God which I am in no conflict with

Love in Christ,
JM

JosephM · 11-18-2006, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

What does "Jehovah" mean Joseph?

It means self existent or eternal but you do not need me to tell you that. Why do you ask?

Love in Christ,
JM

Faithfulservant · 11-18-2006, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage

Christian = (Christ-Like)

What is pride to you, faithfulservant; would you say honoring the Love of God, and allowing ones self to feel it be a pride issue? Love comes from God, and to honor it is what he wishes. None are perfect, but we can allow ourselves his Love for us, and act in that Love when deling with others. Is this pride to you? That someone feels satisfaction through Gods Love, and allows themselves to show it?

Worldly accomplishments are one thing to feel pride in, but I would say feeling Loved by God and deriving great satisfaction in that Love would not be the definition of pride used in the Bible. Or, were you talking about feeling pride in what one knows 'intillectually' about the Bible and God and Jesus? Certainly both are useful; w/o one the other is on its own. Both being the ideal combination. The difference is that intellect alone cannot lead to God, but walking in his Love always will. Heart and intellect are two completely different things, by which one will stumbe here and there, but the other the path made straight if walked in faith.

This is my view, but you may see me as a prideful man. It is not pride, it is Love that leads my way. I 'am' proud of my God, and there is nothing I can do outside his Love that can please him...

Much Love,

we can certainly make the ATTEMPT to be Christ-like.. in fact thats what we are to do... but do we ever succeed in that attempt?? no way.

Like I said you do a word study in pride then read the bible... otherwise I suggest that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Faithfulservant · 11-18-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

..."How do you know Jesus is God, Joshua?"...

After 45 years, of living on the edge, seeing what I've seen, missing death by the skin of my teeth so many times, having prayers answered in the most profound ways (sometimes the answer was a resounding NO), I know. I don't believe, I know.

v/r

Joshua

When we are in the center of Gods will we are immortal till God says its time to go home.

Faithfulservant · 11-18-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephM

Greetings Faithfulservant,

I certainly didn't start this thread here but I am curious why if there is nothing one can say or argument one can make to change your mind using the writings in the Bible then why do you even participate if it makes you angry or self-righteous. There are many conflicts in the world and everybody thinks God is on their side. Perhaps God is above such pettiness and just unconditionally loves rather than takes sides. I am paticipating because streetbob has expressed an interst to hear a different challenging view using writings from the Bible as much as possible. I am participating according to guidelines and do not require conversion to what I express as my understanding at present. It seems to me there is no reason to accuse people of breaking commandments or being prideful or inferring God is not on their side. Can't you discuss the issue in love and if you can't or won't even consider the other side just ignore the thread. Personally, I have enjoyed hearing the views expressed by others regardless of my personal understanding and no love is lost. Hoping you can do the same without judgement or condemnation.

Love in Christ,
JM

Yes I am righteously angry when I hear my fellow man deny Christs deity... How dare you as a matter of fact... and I even pray Dear God.. forgive them for they know not what they do... I will not stand back and let you diminish the name of the Holy one of Israel and not tell you that you are WRONG and face you eternal torment if you do not repent. You are an older man.. Joseph what if you die in your sleep tonight.. are you 100% sure that you have it right??? That when you die you wont face the judgement seat of the Lord God and have to make an accounting of your life??? Its your choice...

Faithfulservant · 11-18-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephM

Faithfulservant,

By the way, I have not seen anyone here being disrespectful to Jesus or stripping him of the title Lord. Lord and Master are respectful titles applied to teachers and people felt deserving of respect or in authority. It is a title such as Mr. in English and is translated from the word 'kurios' in Greek and can be made applicable to a translation of Mr., Sir, Master, Lord or God. The Greek word doesn't imply God but can be used for respect to one such as Jesus, royality, someone in authority or God . Check your Greek dictionary if in doubt. The English have many Lords and the King James trsanslators preferred using that word to denote respect as they did for those they respect in England from royalty that they called Lords or Dukes.

Just a tid-bit to consider.

Love in Christ,
JM

You are wrong. If you call Jesus Lord you are calling Him GOD... Lord Adonai God its all the same.. in the OT and NT. You are so full of pride and wordly wisdom I bet it eats at you for someone to tell you that you might be wrong... am I right?

Quahom1 · 11-18-2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephM

It means self existent or eternal but you do not need me to tell you that. Why do you ask?

Love in Christ,
JM

What does YHWH mean?

JosephM · 11-18-2006, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua

Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephM

It means self existent or eternal but you do not need me to tell you that. Why do you ask?

Love in Christ,
JM

What does YHWH mean?

No offence Joshua but if you will not answer my question after I have answered your question then I also will choose to not answer yours.

Love in Christ,
JM

Quahom1 · 11-18-2006, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephM

No offence Joshua but if you will not answer my question after I have answered your question then I also will choose to not answer yours.

Love in Christ,
JM

Didn't think so, 'cause you know where I'm going with this.

Cage · 11-18-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

we can certainly make the ATTEMPT to be Christ-like.. in fact thats what we are to do... but do we ever succeed in that attempt?? no way.

Like I said you do a word study in pride then read the bible... otherwise I suggest that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes, we should all attempt to be like him, an we all fail to be at times. It is Love that allows us the opportunity. Not our works, not just faith, but Love and faith in the Love of our God. I wish no ill on any man, I only wish Gods Love would be center of heart. Love your neighbor, Love your enemies, and above all, Love God for it is by his Love that we are able to do these things.

I wish you well, faithfulservant...

Much Love,