wy do people think jesus was god

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Not at all. But then you go and interpret as you see as fit also. Since Abraham was 2,500 years dead, and yet Jesus stated before Abraham was (past tense), I Am (present tense of to be), I see little room for interpretation of what Jesus states. Jesus never states "I was".

i havent read all of the posts so maybe someone has already posted the following ................ sorry i cant help myself Jesus was before Abraham because he had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah , he was in the heavens with his Father before he came to the earth , he was around for ages before Abraham was born.

Joh

8:58—"before Abraham came into existence, I have been"

Gr., πριν᾿Αβρααμ γενέσθαιεγω ειμί

(prin A·bra·am´ ge·ne´sthai e·go´ ei·mi´)

[BlaznFattyz]

Because Jesus and God are both I AM.

"And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you,'.

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?' Jesus said to them, 'Truly truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.' Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."

"Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses? Ye have heard the blasphemy..."

• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am," (ASV).
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (KJV).
• “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am," (NASB).
• “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!"
• “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM," (NKJV).
• “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am," (RSV).
• "Truly, truly, before Abraham was, I am," (NLT).
• "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am," (RSV)
• "Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am!" (KJ21).
• "Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am,' (YLT).
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (Darby).
• "Antes que Abraham fuese, yo soy," (Spanish) - uses "yo soy" which is "I am."
• "En vérité, en vérité, je vous le dis, avant qu'Abraham fût, je suis," (French) "je suis" which is "I am."

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

Because Jesus and God are both I AM.

"And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you,'.

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?' Jesus said to them, 'Truly truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.' Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."

"Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses? Ye have heard the blasphemy..."

• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am," (ASV).
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (KJV).
• “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am," (NASB).
• “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!"
• “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM," (NKJV).
• “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am," (RSV).
• "Truly, truly, before Abraham was, I am," (NLT).
• "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am," (RSV)
• "Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am!" (KJ21).
• "Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am,' (YLT).
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (Darby).
• "Antes que Abraham fuese, yo soy," (Spanish) - uses "yo soy" which is "I am."
• "En vérité, en vérité, je vous le dis, avant qu'Abraham fût, je suis," (French) "je suis" which is "I am."

Encore mon ami. C'est un mot de vrai, ou vraiment.

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

Because Jesus and God are both I AM.

"And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you,'.

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?' Jesus said to them, 'Truly truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.' Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."

"Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses? Ye have heard the blasphemy..."

• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am," (ASV).
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (KJV).
• “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am," (NASB).
• “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!"
• “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM," (NKJV).
• “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am," (RSV).
• "Truly, truly, before Abraham was, I am," (NLT).
• "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am," (RSV)
• "Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am!" (KJ21).
• "Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am,' (YLT).
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (Darby).
• "Antes que Abraham fuese, yo soy," (Spanish) - uses "yo soy" which is "I am."
• "En vérité, en vérité, je vous le dis, avant qu'Abraham fût, je suis," (French) "je suis" which is "I am."

dont forget that some translations Syriac—Edition,
Curetonian Syriac—Edition:
Syriac Pe****ta—Edition:
Georgian—Edition: have translated in a more accurate way which leads to better understanding of Gods word...........before Abraham was i have been...before ever Abraham came to be ,i was......before Abraham existed ,i was......before Abraham came to be i was. ... before Abraham was born i was . so there are other good translations out there if we choose to find them. and this will lead to better understanding of Gods word.

[JosephM]

People can translate however they wish in a particular translation, however here is the Greek word used and its meaning from the Greek dictionary.

eimi,i-mee'; first person singular presumed indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic) :- am, have been, × it is I, was.

So you see, if your faith hangs on that particular verse, perhaps it hangs on a thread. Surely for such an important belief, there must be better versus to substantiate it. I for one would be interested in hearing them.

Love in Christ,
JM

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am," (ASV).
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (KJV).
• “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am," (NASB).
• “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!"
• “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM," (NKJV).
• “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am," (RSV).
• "Truly, truly, before Abraham was, I am," (NLT).
• "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am," (RSV)
• "Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am!" (KJ21).
• "Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am,' (YLT).
• "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (Darby).
• "Antes que Abraham fuese, yo soy," (Spanish) - uses "yo soy" which is "I am."
• "En vérité, en vérité, je vous le dis, avant qu'Abraham fût, je suis," (French) "je suis" which is "I am."

• “I am totally cereal you guys, I am teh god lol, kthx!!11/!" (Hacker version).

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

• “I am totally cereal you guys, I am teh god lol, kthx!!11/!" (Hacker version).

whew, for a second there I thought your were "hacking" (cough cough, choke)

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

whew, for a second there I thought your were "hacking" (cough cough, choke)

Me? Never.. ¬.¬

[Dor]

John 8:24 ειπον ουν υμιν οτι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εαν γαρ μη πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων
John 8:24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8:28ειπεν ουν αυτοις ο ιησους οταν υψωσητε τον υιον του ανθρωπου τοτε γνωσεσθε οτι εγω ειμι και απ εμαυτου ποιω ουδεν αλλα καθως εδιδαξεν με ο πατηρ μου ταυτα λαλω
John 8:28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 13:19απ αρτι λεγω υμιν προ του γενεσθαι ινα οταν γενηται πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι
John 13:19Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

John 18:5 απεκριθησαν αυτω ιησουν τον ναζωραιον λεγει αυτοις ο ιησους εγω ειμι ειστηκει δε και ιουδας ο παραδιδους αυτον μετ αυτων
John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

John 18:6ως ουν ειπεν αυτοις οτι εγω ειμι απηλθον εις τα οπισω και επεσον χαμαι
John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

John 18:8απεκριθη ο ιησους ειπον υμιν οτι εγω ειμι ει ουν εμε ζητειτε αφετε τουτους υπαγειν
John 18:8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

John 8:58ειπεν αυτοις ο ιησους αμην αμην λεγω υμιν πριν αβρααμ γενεσθαι εγω ειμι
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Why should 8:58 be changed when it was translated so many other places as I am.

The Jews did not acuse him of blasphemy for claiming pre-existence. They did it cause he used a name God had used himself.
The phrase was known in the early church.
Irenaeus showed familiarity with it as I am, so did Origen and Novatian.
Chrysostom wrote, "As the Father used this expression, "I Am," so also doth Christ; for it signifieth continuous Being, irrespective of time. On which account the expression seemed to them to be blasphemous." "Homilies on St. John"

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Dor

The Jews did not acuse him of blasphemy for claiming pre-existence. They did it cause he used a name God had used himself.

exactly. why do people want to argue what jesus claimed to be and what he said, when the evidence about what he was claiming is clearly written with the response of the people at that time who witnessed it.

[JosephM]

Thanks for your time and the additional references Dor,

I will examine them.

Love in Christ,
JM

[JosephM]

Hi Dor,
The 6 additional versus you have given without a doubt say 'I am he'. But with all due respect it seems to me they refer to Jesus pointing to himself as the messiah which was to come, or in John 18 just Jesus acknowledging that I am Jesus whom you seek. That Jesus was indicating he was the messiah;

mashiyach,maw-shee'-akh; from Hebrew 4886 (mashach); anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint); specifically the Messiah :- anointed, Messiah.

it seems to be clear. Messiah meaning annointed is the same as the Greek word for Christ. Whenever I seem to read further past Jesus's statements of 'I am he', he always talks of himself as sent of the Father, doing the will of the father, or being one with the father even as we can be. I still do not see a statement where he says I am God but I do see a claim to being the messiah that was to come and a claim of being the Son of God. That seems to be very plain.

Love in Christ,
JM

[JosephM]

Dor,
When I look further at the the Jewish understanding of the Messiah, even though most of them recognize not Jesus as him it is clear that they do not equate Messiah with God even if he were to come. Here is a short answer from a Jewish Rabbi.

Question

I'm interested in what exactly is the Jewish understanding of who the Messiah is, what his credentials are and what he is to do among the children of Israel. Answer

What is the Messiah (Mashiach) supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

1) Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

3) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The messiah will be a regular human being, born naturally to husband and wife. He is not to be a god, nor a man born of supernatural or virgin birth. The very idea that God would take on human form is repulsive to Jews because it contradicts our concept of God as being above and beyond the limitations of the human body and situation. Jews believe that G-d ALONE is to be worshipped, and not a being who is His creation, be he angel, saint, or even the messiah himself.

To learn more, read "The Real Messiah" by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, published by the National Conference of Synagogue Youth.

With blessings from Jerusalem,

Rabbi Shraga Simmons

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Whenever I seem to read further past Jesus's statements of 'I am he', he always talks of himself as sent of the Father, doing the will of the father, or being one with the father even as we can be.

we can reborn to everlasting life by the blood of christ, but christ himself is this life and gives it to us and his spirit works in us. God is the father, son, and holy ghost, and we can be the children of god through his reaching out to us and our acceptance. we can be one such as the kingdom of god and brothers in christ doing the will of god, but we cannot be one as god is one--eternal and in three persons.

[Dor]

Oh it just is not even worth it any more.